BMW 6HP TCU TunerPro XDF development sponsored by BimmerBoost.com

[bradsm87]

Hi guys,

Clemens at XHP Flashtool has been very generous in providing us with a TunerPro XDF in order to do custom TCU tunes. At least 80% of anything that you'd ever want to change for doing a custom performance tune is defined in that XDF. A few of us recently also defined the torque limit per gear table and not only has Clemens now published this table but also a general torque limit table as well which has saved us testing, more looking and more testing. I can't thank Clemens enough for providing this XDF.

We found the torque limit per gear initially from hours or manual searching for known close values and hints at stock values from those that knew the table. Finding anything this way is extremely limited and that could well have been the only thing we could have found that way.

Next, I tracked down a comparatively low cost source compared to what people were asking at more mainstream sources, but still pricey for individual enthusiasts to take the risk buying, for two WinOLS OLS files for suspected similar TCUs (VAG 6HP28 and BMW 8HP45) as there is no publicly available OLS for our TCU ROM. These are effectively leaked full map information for the TCUs that they apply to. @TwistedTuning generously stepped in and purchased both of these OLS files. This paid off well because it turns out that the VAG 6HP table layout is very, very similar to ours for the most part. I was able to track down a handful more tables that I think will be useful for tuning, based on just an exported map list from the OLS file as these files were not able to be opened with the latest WinOLS demo. If you end up doing custom TCU tunes or receive a custom TCU tune, please consider swinging a small PayPal donation through to Justin at @TwistedTuning . We would not have these files without him.

The big hurdle/wall that we had ran into was that we can only do so much with an exported map list. There are sometimes 20 or more maps with the exact same name! What on earth does each one do? I was preparing for the worst (flashing and testing every single one to see which gear change it applies to, rinse and repeat). This is where @Sticky at BimmerBoost.com has stepped in and put his hand up to make the substantial purchase and provide a WinOLS license for 6HP XDF development. I have just finished getting this set up and I've just gone from insufficient information to information overload! All of those identically named maps now are in separately labelled folders! We now have the axis information and much more. I haven't even delved in to some of the advantages the full version has over the Demo yet either! This has opened the floodgates for moving forward with the 6HP TCU XDF development. Support those that support us! BimmerBoost.com certainly has a great user base and it's always been my preferred forum for technical discussion.

There are 2-4 main people playing around with table discovery. Some the odd hour here and there and others more. I believe most of them drive diesel cars and everybody has different priorities of what tables they want to get defined. We're just going to chip away at what we each most want to find independently of each other and share our findings.

Here are some of the things I'll be looking at getting defined soon:

- Torque re-introduction ramp rate after shift torque intervention. I think slowing the rate of torque re-introduction just a little should do wonders for post-shift timing corrections. I know there are many ways to get around this but some are compromises and I think this will be the best fix yet.

- Main line pressure related tables and getting a better understanding of useable limits to shift pressure tables.


If there is some sort of feature or function that you think might be controlled with TCU software and you think would be handy to be able to tune, this is the thread to suggest it.

We'll be sure to share any updates on this thread and the official community XDF will be coming soon to BimmerBoost.com after verifying a few new additions!

[Sticky2]

Bimmerboost is overrated IMO

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

This is very very very cool! I cannot wait til this is all sorted, and we can apply a true custom flash to the Nizpro trans we have just waiting for such a break through. A couple requests to truly makes these trans worth their weight for racing applications.

1. We absolutely have to get rid of any nannies that do not allow for full brake boosting, meaning 100% throttle, against the converter building 15+ psi at the line WITHOUT the nanny stepping in, and shutting the throttle.

2. Next they have done this via a simple Cobb AP on the ford ZF trans because they had full access. I am confident it is possible with ours as well. A flash activated transbrake that locks the trans in 1st, and R together for full transbrake launches.

If you can do these two things on top of everything else. Coupled with Nizpro's hard parts, this trans should finally see some really fast N54's. Looking forward to more break throughs on the TCU flashing front!

[tofu]

Thanks

[Abacus38]

This is very very very cool! I cannot wait til this is all sorted, and we can apply a true custom flash to the Nizpro trans we have just waiting for such a break through. A couple requests to truly makes these trans worth their weight for racing applications.

1. We absolutely have to get rid of any nannies that do not allow for full brake boosting, meaning 100% throttle, against the converter building 15+ psi at the line WITHOUT the nanny stepping in, and shutting the throttle.

2. Next they have done this via a simple Cobb AP on the ford ZF trans because they had full access. I am confident it is possible with ours as well. A flash activated transbrake that locks the trans in 1st, and R together for full transbrake launches.

If you can do these two things on top of everything else. Coupled with Nizpro's hard parts, this trans should finally see some really fast N54's. Looking forward to more break throughs on the TCU flashing front!

If they can do that ill swap my manual trans for zf auto in a heartbeat

[Sticky]

We'll be sure to share any updates on this thread and the official community XDF will be coming soon to BimmerBoost.com after verifying a few new additions!

[135pats]

Nice! This is over my head technically but a sincere 'thank you' to all involved. I had a 6MT swap all lined up in the Fall but have held off because of work like this

[Revnato]

Nice I think I have the 6HP28 trans in my 12' x5m. Installing Pure turbos this week and plan on getting Nizpro built trans and DSS axles to help handle the power. I'm sure this flash would help that much more

[Sticky]

Nice I think I have the 6HP28 trans in my 12' x5m. Installing Pure turbos this week and plan on getting Nizpro built trans and DSS axles to help handle the power. I'm sure this flash would help that much more

http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ble-the-torque

[Karleo]

Man I would love to crack the newest winols version...

[bradsm87]

This is very very very cool! I cannot wait til this is all sorted, and we can apply a true custom flash to the Nizpro trans we have just waiting for such a break through. A couple requests to truly makes these trans worth their weight for racing applications.

1. We absolutely have to get rid of any nannies that do not allow for full brake boosting, meaning 100% throttle, against the converter building 15+ psi at the line WITHOUT the nanny stepping in, and shutting the throttle.

2. Next they have done this via a simple Cobb AP on the ford ZF trans because they had full access. I am confident it is possible with ours as well. A flash activated transbrake that locks the trans in 1st, and R together for full transbrake launches.

If you can do these two things on top of everything else. Coupled with Nizpro's hard parts, this trans should finally see some really fast N54's. Looking forward to more break throughs on the TCU flashing front!

I think number 1 should be just a matter of finding the right tables. I'll add it to my list. I agree that would be really cool. There are also many tables related to torque converter characteristics that likely need changing with a higher stall torque converter too. If you stall it up and the revs are higher than what the TCU expects (eg. with a higher stall torque converter), it's going to request huge torque reduction from the engine.

Number 2 is above my head personally but the sky is the limit for some others. I'd say it would probably require custom logic. I'd recommend to have a chat to Clemens at XHP on that one. I'd say that one would require the right people and the right money to get them to develop it.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I think number 1 should be just a matter of finding the right tables. I'll add it to my list. I agree that would be really cool. There are also many tables related to torque converter characteristics that likely need changing with a higher stall torque converter too. If you stall it up and the revs are higher than what the TCU expects (eg. with a higher stall torque converter), it's going to request huge torque reduction from the engine.

Number 2 is above my head personally but the sky is the limit for some others. I'd say it would probably require custom logic. I'd recommend to have a chat to Clemens at XHP on that one. I'd say that one would require the right people and the right money to get them to develop it.

Awesome, thanks for the reply! #1 would at least allow full boost launches which would easily get our car deep into the 9's. Looking forward to getting this car ready, and using what you bring to the table!

[TwistedTuning]

didn't even know this thread wa here. For some reason i didn't get any alerts. TCM tuning is a great thing.

[Sticky]

didn't even know this thread wa here. For some reason i didn't get any alerts. TCM tuning is a great thing.

Are you subscribed to the N54 forum?

Anyway, glad you guys are all happy to see this. Hopefully some strides forward are made and it's worth the investment.

[R.G.]

This is more rewarding than a giveaway. Good stuff

[Sticky]

This is more rewarding than a giveaway. Good stuff

I think so too.

[bradsm87]

Google Translate translates "Schalter fuer Wandlerschutz im Stallspeed"

to "Switch for wall protection in the Stallspeed"

Can anyone who speaks German translate this any better than that? Could it be a switch to stop torque intervention when loading up for launches?



Another one: "gefuehrter getriebeschutz" Google translates to "guided gear protection". There are lots of references to torque converter stall and torque thresholds when used with that combination of words. It looks like some of them could be torque limits based on torque converter slip amount. Any better translation?

[tobi335]

Hey Bradsm87
"Schalter fuer Wandlerschutz im Stallspeed" -> trigger for converter protection at stall speed


The other one could be translated as : leading transmission protection

[bradsm87]

@Tony@VargasTurboTech what exactly happens when you try and WOT stall it up on the spot in 1st? What revs does it hold at? Does it cut out hard or just hold at a certain RPM smoothly (even though you know it's not requesting full load)? My car's out of action so I can't check myself.

These tables look like they may be for stall speed torque limits. The Y axis is assumed to be torque converter slip RPM. The X axis is current engine RPM and the Z values would be torque limit. There are time thresholds etc to enter this "slip limitation mode" of sorts which would be why the very low torque limits aren't applied all the time.

[bradsm87]

The other one could be translated as : leading transmission protection

Cheers.

"Schalter fuer Wandlerschutz im Stallspeed" -> trigger for converter protection at stall speed

This sounds very interesting and a possible solution for @Tony@VargasTurboTech 's point number 1. above. Who is willing to test this change? Send me an xHP TCU backup file of your Alpina bin and I'll modify the switch to turn off this "converter protection at stall speed" and send it back to flash with xHP.

[bradsm87]

The VAG and BMW files differ in the area around the stall protection stuff. To know what is what, we'll need to either get hold of the 6HP Gen 1 OLS which is floating around or best guess and testing. That'll have to come a little later. I'm hoping to upload the first community XDF tonight or tomorrow. In the testing folder, It'll include end of torque reduction ramp duration tables. I was hoping to have the stall speed protection stuff in this one too but they need further investigation.

[Sticky]

The VAG and BMW files differ in the area around the stall protection stuff. To know what is what, we'll need to either get hold of the 6HP Gen 1 OLS which is floating around or best guess and testing. That'll have to come a little later. I'm hoping to upload the first community XDF tonight or tomorrow. In the testing folder, It'll include end of torque reduction ramp duration tables. I was hoping to have the stall speed protection stuff in this one too but they need further investigation.

Good work.

Hoping that XDF has some nice definitions to benefit everyone.

[bradsm87]

Oh I forgot about the some system pressure tables too (In-gear system pressure and minimum system pressure during shifts). They'll be in the testing folder too.

[bradsm87]

The Community XDF v1 is now available here:

http://www.bimmerboost.com/g2.php?do=download&file=100

I'd love to see the "TQ Reduction End Ramp Duration" tables tested. If you understand the risks of testing something that is untested, the way I'd do it would be to drastically increase each item one at a time and flash it then log it. For example, change the 1>2 value from 80ms to 160ms then flash and log. Torque and ignition timing should come back in after the shift much slower. That would verify that the table is correct. Rinse and repeat.

I still don't have a diff so I'm out for testing.

[bradsm87]

So without being confident in which byte is the switch to turn off stall speed protection mode, another option is to increase the torque limits in the stall speed protection mode tables, which is a safer option anyway because you can still have some level of torque limitation in place.

The X axis is engine RPM. The Y axis is labelled as follows in the VAG 6HP XDF:

Description: nd_syn fuer gefuehrter Getriebeschutz
Id: nd_synmmotmax
Unit: RPM

I would assume that this axis is the RPM difference between the engine and transmission input shaft (torque converter speed difference). At first, I was confused with the positive axis values at the bottom half of the gears 4-6 tables. After giving it some thought, this could be for a situation where the torque converter isn't locked under decel (eg when cold) then if you were to apply 100% torque, this could have a bit of a rubber band effect, giving the torque converter a "run-up" to an undesired amount of slip. Torque limitation in that scenario would protect from this.

Here is an example of two of these tables.