Is methanol a worthwhile investment?

[Fishayyy]

I've been trying to work out a good methanol setup for port injection, but it seems like I keep seeing people selling their meth setup for a PI system for ethanol. I plan on doing PI after I have enough money for a single turbo kit, but the question is, is meth injection worth the trouble? I thought it helped with IAT supression and boosted octane, but I guess it causes too much trouble on the tuning side even if you were just runing one or two nozzles strictly for IAT? I'm pretty new to all this so sorry of this has an obvious answer Im hoping someone can enlighten me lol. If it's a bad idea I might just go for a PI system instead.

[Sticky]

If you have access to ethanol then by all means if your fuel system is up to par.

If you don't, yes, methanol is a worthwhile investment.

[Fishayyy]

If you have access to ethanol then by all means if your fuel system is up to par.

If you don't, yes, methanol is a worthwhile investment.

So is the IAT supression negligible?

[Sticky]

So is the IAT supression negligible?

Between the two? I'm not sure if anyone has broken it down but it is going to depend on several factors.

Ideally I think for a direct injection application (and I'm starting to feel for most applications) you want ethanol.

[Fishayyy]

Between the two? I'm not sure if anyone has broken it down but it is going to depend on several factors.

Ideally I think for a direct injection application (and I'm starting to feel for most applications) you want ethanol.

I agree that ethanol would be the best for port injection, but I guess I'm more confused on why people don't stack them.

[Sticky]

I agree that ethanol would be the best for port injection, but I guess I'm more confused on why people don't stack them.

I was thinking more of ethanol and direct injection but some people have tried stacking them. You can have too much octane.

[Fishayyy]

I was thinking more of ethanol and direct injection but some people have tried stacking them. You can have too much octane.

Well I know 3000gt Mr and Ingeniator are going to be doing some really interesting setups including methanol so I might just wait to see what they do.

[Sticky]

Well I know 3000gt Mr and Ingeniator are going to be doing some really interesting setups including methanol so I might just wait to see what they do.

I mean either way you can make a ton of power with either. The most important thing is having your fuel system dialed in for your setup.

You don't have to commit or anything. You aren't marrying a fuel.

[djpaulie]

In my opinion I would certainly go PI if you have an intention to go big turbo, though if your on stock turbo you will see little benefit other then being able to run 100% e85 (if your lift pump is up to the task depending on setup) which will save you the hassle of mixing fuels. No one has marketed them together simply because there has been no reputable testing yet with PI and methanol together. The IAT suppression is nice from meth though not extremely necessary as E85 has great knock suppression and provides in cylinder cooling. Either way meth can be beneficial but the intake manifold on the N54 is horrible for even distribution and PI is perfectly even making it more reliable and easier on the tuning. adding PI you will also be relaxing your fuel system running the setup at say 60% (random number) instead of pushing the stock one to 90% and supplementing with meth. Running any component that hard for that long will eventually result in fatigue and then failure. Over all PI works out to be easier, safer, and more of a long term solution especially if your going to run a larger single turbo setup IMO

[135pats]

Tuning complexity and lack of "need" is probably what keeps most away from stacking meth with port fuel. At least for me, once I got secondary fueling, the meth became an unnecessary risk/annoyance.

If you need more fuel, you should find proper fuel. For those w/out access to ethanol, obviously it's a different consideration. But with big turbos you run out of fuel v quickly, even on pump gas.

[Fishayyy]

Tuning complexity and lack of "need" is probably what keeps most away from stacking meth with port fuel. At least for me, once I got secondary fueling, the meth became an unnecessary risk/annoyance.

If you need more fuel, you should find proper fuel. For those w/out access to ethanol, obviously it's a different consideration. But with big turbos you run out of fuel v quickly, even on pump gas.

This is almost a given since the whole reason for this is to provide more fuel lol
What's your average MPG now?

[Fishayyy]

In my opinion I would certainly go PI if you have an intention to go big turbo, though if your on stock turbo you will see little benefit other then being able to run 100% e85 (if your lift pump is up to the task depending on setup) which will save you the hassle of mixing fuels. No one has marketed them together simply because there has been no reputable testing yet with PI and methanol together. The IAT suppression is nice from meth though not extremely necessary as E85 has great knock suppression and provides in cylinder cooling. Either way meth can be beneficial but the intake manifold on the N54 is horrible for even distribution and PI is perfectly even making it more reliable and easier on the tuning. adding PI you will also be relaxing your fuel system running the setup at say 60% (random number) instead of pushing the stock one to 90% and supplementing with meth. Running any component that hard for that long will eventually result in fatigue and then failure. Over all PI works out to be easier, safer, and more of a long term solution especially if your going to run a larger single turbo setup IMO

This is what I feel like I needed to hear, because both setups I was considering came out to be similar prices although meth was slightly cheaper. I live in Ventura where there is an e85 station about 30-40 mins away east or west so I have access, just not a whole lot of access. However, I've been messaging a gas station that's been being built in my town and I'm hoping I can convince them to put in an e85 pump. If I can do that I'll probably just end up buying the Motiv PI kit and call it a day.

[135pats]

This is almost a given since the whole reason for this is to provide more fuel lol
What's your average MPG now?

Roger that, was just trying to clarify the difference between meth as your "fuel", and actual...fuel

My MPG? Bad. Real bad. On straight corn I saw like 170 miles to the 14 gallon tank. Now a few things to consider

1. I don't drive the car daily. More like 2-3 times a week.
2. When I do drive it, it's either languishing in DC traffic, or taking it out on the highway for fun

So you couldn't really set it up worse from a MPG standpoint. The addition of port fuel has not had any substantial effect on my MPG, though in candor I spend v little time thinking about it. On pump gas, my MPG actually went up a tick after going single turbo.

[Fishayyy]

Roger that, was just trying to clarify the difference between meth as your "fuel", and actual...fuel

My MPG? Bad. Real bad. On straight corn I saw like 170 miles to the 14 gallon tank. Now a few things to consider

1. I don't drive the car daily. More like 2-3 times a week.
2. When I do drive it, it's either languishing in DC traffic, or taking it out on the highway for fun

So you couldn't really set it up worse from a MPG standpoint. The addition of port fuel has not had any substantial effect on my MPG, though in candor I spend v little time thinking about it. On pump gas, my MPG actually went up a tick after going single turbo.

From what I've come to understand, Ethanol has 30% less energy content per volume than gas does so usually if your Mpg was 20 on average it's going to go down to at least 13...but hey power over economy right?

[djpaulie]

From what I've come to understand, Ethanol has 30% less energy content per volume than gas does so usually if your Mpg was 20 on average it's going to go down to at least 13...but hey power over economy right?

Pretty spot on and yes more always MOAR hahahaha

[135pats]

From what I've come to understand, Ethanol has 30% less energy content per volume than gas does so usually if your Mpg was 20 on average it's going to go down to at least 13...but hey power over economy right?

Yep, requires more ethanol relative to pump gas, hence the strain it puts on the OE fuel system.

One more thing i'd add - when all was said and done, I dumped nearly as much money into the methanol system as I did the port fuel. MOTIV has tiered out the fuel options, so for someone like myself who "only" wants 550-600ish WHP on straight E85, it allows you to do so with a STG2 LPFP (ie no dedicated FPR, no dedicated addtl. returns and feeds, and obviously cheaper).

The HFS4 kit along with stainless lines and the tank ended up costing a ballpark similar amount. Then factor in constantly having to check and stress over purging the lines, constantly having to buy more methanol, having methanol just hanging out in drums in your garage. Unless you are seriously racing the car and NEED IAT control, it's a bandaid and one that i'm happy to have moved on from.

Edit: And yes, always moar power > economy. Always.

[Fishayyy]

Yep, requires more ethanol relative to pump gas, hence the strain it puts on the OE fuel system.

One more thing i'd add - when all was said and done, I dumped nearly as much money into the methanol system as I did the port fuel. MOTIV has tiered out the fuel options, so for someone like myself who "only" wants 550-600ish WHP on straight E85, it allows you to do so with a STG2 LPFP (ie no dedicated FPR, no dedicated addtl. returns and feeds, and obviously cheaper).

The HFS4 kit along with stainless lines and the tank ended up costing a ballpark similar amount. Then factor in constantly having to check and stress over purging the lines, constantly having to buy more methanol, having methanol just hanging out in drums in your garage. Unless you are seriously racing the car and NEED IAT control, it's a bandaid and one that i'm happy to have moved on from.

Edit: And yes, always moar power > economy. Always.

So for the sake of simplicity I'll most likely forget about the methanol idea for now and go back to my original plan of the port injection kit with a LPFP upgrade. Thanks a lot for the help guys I just wanted to hear some of the reasons for people ditching the meth setups! Plus I wasn't aware that Ethanol had knock suppression and cylinder cooling capabilities.

[jerod.owens]

I would say just to run e85!

[Fishayyy]

I would say just to run e85!

Yea that's pretty much what I'm going to go with lol

[Rice157]

Is it ok to use both?

[Sticky]

Is it ok to use both?

I don't see why not.

[Fishayyy]

Is it ok to use both?

Yea, it just complicates the tuning process from what I've come to understand.