VTT Stage 2+ Updated Dyno results 645 / 629

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Well in the midst of a bunch of pure garbage, we went to the dyno today as we hoped, I wasted a good 45 minutes of dyno time while shiv climbed around our car trying to take pictures of turbos from the top, annoyed was not the word, I told him to back up, warmed up the dyno and without flashing laid down 639WHP on the tune I drove in on. Satisfied he took off. We then continued our tuning session until it was cut short by Dzennos wife telling him it was time to be done. We threw a 5th gear run in at the end for $#@!s and giggles and made 654WTQ, but less WHP, when you are pushing this power all the way to redline, as you will see the 5th gear pull bumps up power and TQ down low but adds nothing up top. A 5th gear dyno pull is similar to what you will be making on the street with the added load. Either way we fixed the HPFP and our shotgun performs FLAWLESSLY I honestly love that system so much, it just makes fuel, but it seems we have possibly found the flow limit of the injectors as even with PLENTY OF FUEL we sometimes found ourselves lean up top, and with trims maxing, Dzenno richened it up up top and it helped. This log is perfect and was a the 641 / 625 run, our cleanest one, just to be safe when I head to the track we will mix a little 109 and richen the mixture up. To prove the other theories wrong, we maxed the HPFP across the board, it didn't fix the lean condition or trims, if you have plenty of fuel to the injectors and you are running lean, it usually means you are maxing out duty cycle, we will see. Anyways I am going home and enjoying my weekend away from the scene, to everyone who purchased today for the group buy, please add your name to the post and invoices will be sent out on Monday.

Thanks for the support.

http://www.datazap.me/u/vargasturbot...11-12-15-17-20

[Zee]

Nice work. You are scarying all those singles now

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Nice work. You are scarying all those singles now

I have a feeling we will be hurting a lot of peoples feelings who paid 8K+ for a single turbo kit to get in the 650WHP range at shift sector. There is more power in the car, boost is not maxing at all, we are running lean meaning we cant touch timing until we figure it out. This car has 660WHP in it for sure

[jzeee037]

That's awesome. Good work. How are you controlling boost?

[Terry@BMS]

it just makes fuel, but it seems we have possibly found the flow limit of the injectors as even with PLENTY OF FUEL we sometimes found ourselves lean up top, and with trims maxing, Dzenno richened it up up top and it helped. This log is perfect and was a the 641 / 625 run, our cleanest one, just to be safe when I head to the track we will mix a little 109 and richen the mixture up.

This is the dual pump setup right? I notice high pressure is "above target" and oscillating. The oscillation might be from the control valve on the main pump freaking out due to the fuel pressure over target. If so I think we can correct it easily with a JB4.

When are my fuel pumps shipping again?

[DQE92]

Great numbers!! I would have probably gone this route had the stage 3 s not been introduced earlier.

@VargasTurboTech Just please don't forget about us stage 3 guys as we've been here for the long haul.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

This is the dual pump setup right? I notice high pressure is "above target" and oscillating. The oscillation might be from the control valve on the main pump freaking out due to the fuel pressure over target. If so I think we can correct it easily with a JB4.

When are my fuel pumps shipping again?

Terry, you are correct they do tend to oscillate when we first change the voltage it usually takes 10-15 pulls for them to smooth our perfectly, we have about 8 on it after changed it, the good news is, we are now still at very low voltage about 2 volts above what the FCV sees at idle and there is LOTs of fuel. I am still totally down for you to make a control scheme for the JB4 as we discussed, it will make it a very seemless integration. As far as shipping, I have a finished set up on my desk 2 inches away minus a pulley, my machine shop keeps giving me the tool broke run around, I am only using them for samples not production so we will not have to wait for them once I test this final assembly. I assembled it all except pulley, everything is spot on. Excitded to get them out!

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

That's awesome. Good work. How are you controlling boost?

Dzenno's little fingers are controlling it with WGDC

[JoshBoody]

hmmm, cough... I be quiet.

Did you up the pressure setpoint?

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

hmmm, cough... I be quiet.

Did you up the pressure setpoint?

Josh, your theory is dead wrong. Higher pressure set point did exactly nothing. We still had the same lean condition with 1800PSI or 2500PSI HPFP holding perfectly, what helped slightly to produce this log was asking for richer AFR's. It looks to us like these injectors are not as robust as we though, 100% E85 625WHP they are hitting max duty cycle. We have plenty of fuel to the rail, not enough getting from the rail to the cylinder, when you are pushing you find the limits.

[jzeee037]

Dzenno's little fingers are controlling it with WGDC

I thought there was a limit with Cobb @21st or somewhere around there? I'm gonna use the jb4 but what do I need for a backend flash? I'm stacked with a Cobb now running the e85 flash. Is @dzenno working on a flash for just you? Just wondering which way to go.Terry are you going to offer a flash for these?

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I thought there was a limit with Cobb @21st or somewhere around there? I'm gonna use the jb4 but what do I need for a backend flash? I'm stacked with a Cobb now running the e85 flash. Is @dzenno working on a flash for just you? Just wondering which way to go.Terry are you going to offer a flash for these?

This is flash only, I would only run flash on my cars, Dzenno is able to tune this car because I have a very accurate datalogging system on it that tells us boost, he scales the values so the dme thinks its under 21.5 but he still has full control, but its not easy and he said just run a JB for boost so we can worry about fuel etc

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Nice...congrats...

Just to be clear...anything I comment on or recommend...it is with one goal in mind...no pissing match here.

Things looked pretty good, but there is still a fair amount of oscillation up top after you overshoot the target that the fuel system doesn't like. Can I suggest running it like that for a bit and letting it adapt? I think it's a bit too early to tell that it's not gaining you anything.

JMO...and no matter what you decide...that's cool...it's your testing.

Either way...congrats and I'm glad to see things are looking good.

[CaptainInsano]

What mods are on the car?

[JoshBoody]

Josh, your theory is dead wrong. Higher pressure set point did exactly nothing. We still had the same lean condition with 1800PSI or 2500PSI HPFP holding perfectly, what helped slightly to produce this log was asking for richer AFR's. It looks to us like these injectors are not as robust as we though, 100% E85 625WHP they are hitting max duty cycle. We have plenty of fuel to the rail, not enough getting from the rail to the cylinder, when you are pushing you find the limits.

Huh, I was exactly right... explaining that you are running out of injection window. The reason higher pressure setpoint didn’t help is because the DME may adjust the window based on pressure. Still should have enough injector, but need to change DME parameters. Either injector tables or somehow communicate more MAF. JB could add pressure, without DME knowing, to get around this as another (easy) option.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Huh, I was exactly right... explaining that you are running out of injection window. The reason higher pressure setpoint didn’t help is because the DME may adjust the window based on pressure. Still should have enough injector, but need to change DME parameters. Either injector tables or somehow communicate more MAF. JB could add pressure, without DME knowing, to get around this as another (easy) option.

No Josh, you were not, you made it clear all we had to do was set a higher pressure set point to fix it, if I have to remove you from this thread I will, I am sick of arguing with pompous people who talk and do not do, its all I have done all day, I release a new product and I am supposed to be happy, you know what, I hate the N54 right now, I wish I never even built one set of turbos for it, my life would be much more of a happy place. You have tuned nothing, yet you are telling tuners how to tune, please stop doing so in my threads. If you post one more time I will remove you, from this and every other thread I post, I am sick of arguing with people who do nothing but type on a keyboard.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Nice...congrats...

Just to be clear...anything I comment on or recommend...it is with one goal in mind...no pissing match here.

Things looked pretty good, but there is still a fair amount of oscillation up top after you overshoot the target that the fuel system doesn't like. Can I suggest running it like that for a bit and letting it adapt? I think it's a bit too early to tell that it's not gaining you anything.

JMO...and no matter what you decide...that's cool...it's your testing.

Either way...congrats and I'm glad to see things are looking good.

Steve, we are going to run it like that for a while, if you saw the first log after changing the voltage it looked like a heart rate monitor, its already much smoother, the DME does a good job of learning and smoothing it out. I think for the flash guys it will work well, for the JB guys Terry can build the integration and everyone will be happy. Honestly, I will drive the car around this weekend like its a daily driver and relax, too much fast BMW's for one week. Wednesday we will see some track time

[govr46]

What mods are on the car?

HKS Exhaust, BMS Downpipes, Stock motor (No head work), Tony's VTT stage 2+ turbos, Tony's VTT Double Barrel Shotgun HPFP running 100% E85, and some sort of LPFP upgrade (I forget which one), Cobb V3 tuned by Dzenno.

[blackshan]

Tony I'm not sure if u answered this already but how does the car drive especially comparing to the stage 2s?

[CaptainInsano]

HKS Exhaust, BMS Downpipes, Stock motor (No head work), Tony's VTT stage 2+ turbos, Tony's VTT Double Barrel Shotgun HPFP running 100% E85, and some sort of LPFP upgrade (I forget which one), Cobb V3 tuned by Dzenno.

Thanks

[Torgus]

[QUOTE=VargasTurboTech;591453]I have a feeling we will be hurting a lot of peoples feelings who paid 8K+ for a single turbo kit to get in the 650WHP range at shift sector./QUOTE]

Speaking of which can anyone overlay some ST dynos? Be great to compare.

[brusk]

I'd like to see Dyno comparisons of the stock, Stage 2 and any variation of the Stage 2+'s to see the difference in low end power and spool. Spool wise is there any difference in the two 2+ sizes? Also hoping for some 91/93 octane only runs to see how much these up those limits up. Also any chance of some intake tube testing with the 2+'s since the factory plastic intake pipes were already smaller than the Stage 2's.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I'd like to see Dyno comparisons of the stock, Stage 2 and any variation of the Stage 2+'s to see the difference in low end power and spool. Spool wise is there any difference in the two 2+ sizes? Also hoping for some 91/93 octane only runs to see how much these up those limits up. Also any chance of some intake tube testing with the 2+'s since the factory plastic intake pipes were already smaller than the Stage 2's.

Those graphs are in the other thread, we have no stock dyno files, if someone wants to overlay one they can, 2+ spools 300 RPM behind stage 2, as verified by comparing street and dyno logs

[Payam@BMS]

That is very damn impressive man!! I want a ride in that car dude!

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Tony I'm not sure if u answered this already but how does the car drive especially comparing to the stage 2s?

Honestly it feels the same under 4500 as normal stage 2 makes the same tq numbers, but from there, its just night and day the car is scary fast from idle to redline now, no more top end drop off. This set up will destroy 95% of cars on the road from a roll, put some good slicks or drag radials it will embarrass most things from a dig as well.