A new contender enters - Introducing the Ventura Motorsports E9X N54 top mount single turbo kit - Comp 6465 turbo shows 593 wheel horsepower

[Payam@BMS]

If you're really interested in doing an HTA turbo build then why not just go bottom mount?

Because having your turbo visible is $#@!ing awesome.

But yes, Bottom mount is cool.

Turbo up top is awesome. We could have done a bottom mount kit even quicker, but we give what people want . HTA shouldn't be a problem to fit up top, it's like a regular GT series turbo etc.

lol, I was being sarcastic in a sense that i knew it wasn't a live tiger, but its still bizarre to have a tiger Doll looking out the window setup in such a way that it's meant to look real-ish (curtains moved over, face against the glass )

LMAO, it's cause my dog likes to peak out the window and see who's home. You guys are hilarious.

Anyone who wants to see an EFR on an N54 just google it. It does not look like fun to install:

Attachment 38837Attachment 38838

So you are going to drive for a week on the clutch to break it in? Depending on how much you drive it may take longer to fully break in.

Seen it a couple months ago, a shop in Russia is doing that. Horrible manifold and design by the way.


Clutch will be installed tomorrow . I will drive it around the whole week, going through traffic and back streets on purpose. The only time I look forward to LA traffic, is when I have to break in a clutch LOL. I have a camping trip next Friday - Sunday I totally just remembered. So if not dyno on Friday, the Monday after that 100%.

[Torgus]

If you haven't already done so I highly recommended a clutch stop and getting rid of the delay valve. Made my stage3+ MUCH easier to drive and engage. Which height are you going to use the lower or higher setting? Also, the clutch took around 1500m to really get broken in to the point I can drive it almost like stock. I'm sure a good week or so will be more than enough. Can't wait to see your updated dyno numbers.

[Payam@BMS]

If you haven't already done so I highly recommended a clutch stop and getting rid of the delay valve. Made my stage3+ MUCH easier to drive and engage. Which height are you going to use the lower or higher setting? Also, the clutch took around 1500m to really get broken in to the point I can drive it almost like stock. I'm sure a good week or so will be more than enough. Can't wait to see your updated dyno numbers.

Yes, we have the clutch stop and upgraded m3 delay valve. Where would I check to see the adjustments of the lower and high settings? I think a good 500 miles of traffic should be good. I'll take it up slowly though when I feel its broken in. 15 psi, 17 psi, 19 psi and so on. If it holds then It should be good to go and I'm looking forward to the new numbers as well. Oh, and no more misfires up top so we can really rev her out.

[TVPhoto]

It was a fun time changing out the clutch… not really. Those top bolts were a pain in the A. I wonder if they sell the Stage3+ clutch without the FW.

[Torgus]

Yes, we have the clutch stop and upgraded m3 delay valve. Where would I check to see the adjustments of the lower and high settings? I think a good 500 miles of traffic should be good. I'll take it up slowly though when I feel its broken in. 15 psi, 17 psi, 19 psi and so on. If it holds then It should be good to go and I'm looking forward to the new numbers as well. Oh, and no more misfires up top so we can really rev her out.

The throw out bearing should have a low and high setting. I would go with the lower setting but feel free to do your own research.

It was a fun time changing out the clutch… not really. Those top bolts were a pain in the A. I wonder if they sell the Stage3+ clutch without the FW.

Spec also makes clutches for the stock DMFW. But while you are in there you should replace the stock DMFW from my understanding. So you are already buying a new FW it just matters which one. Also, the stock DMFW is known to cause fake knock above like 470whp or so. I would just get the steel FW and call it a day. I wouldn't want the aluminum if it really is any louder.

[Payam@BMS]

It was a fun time changing out the clutch… not really. Those top bolts were a pain in the A. I wonder if they sell the Stage3+ clutch without the FW.

Yea, I'm coming to the shop at 6am to make sure I can do it all in one day. I don't wanna have any surprises with tools etc, but we have everything here.

You can get the Stage3+ alone if you don't need the flywheel.

[Payam@BMS]

The throw out bearing should have a low and high setting. I would go with the lower setting but feel free to do your own research.

Interesting, I've heard it as well from others posted here. I can't find anything on the TOB that relates to high/low setting. I would love to have low engagement. Maybe when we are installing the clutch?


Edit: ahh, I see the groves on the TOB. I understand how it works, gonna be fun tomorrow!

[TVPhoto]

It took me about a full day, from the morning to night. Again those top 2 bolts will be the biggest pain.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Interesting, I've heard it as well from others posted here. I can't find anything on the TOB that relates to high/low setting. I would love to have low engagement. Maybe when we are installing the clutch?


Edit: ahh, I see the groves on the TOB. I understand how it works, gonna be fun tomorrow!

If you are going to change the pilot bearing, just save yourself throwing tools and spending 3 hours to get it out and go buy this tool and have a torch handy to heat it up if it still wont come out. These can be a super pain to get out. Most people grease them up and leave them if they look good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/blind-h...ler-95987.html

[TVPhoto]

I have the Spec 2+ with SMFW, I was curious if they sold just the clutch.

[Payam@BMS]

If you are going to change the pilot bearing, just save yourself throwing tools and spending 3 hours to get it out and go buy this tool and have a torch handy to heat it up if it still wont come out. These can be a super pain to get out. Most people grease them up and leave them if they look good.

http://www.harborfreight.com/blind-h...ler-95987.html

Yep, I remembered your post you made a couple months ago regarding the pilot bearing. I'm actually on my way to harbor freight right now picking that tool up I put on order.

[Flinchy]

If you're really interested in doing an HTA turbo build then why not just go bottom mount?

i'm not set on any turbo, other than whichever will give me the best spool for the flow rate... that and i'd like to see how an EFR performs (not necessarily myself, someone elses results would be nice haha)

I can't go bottom mount i wouldn't think, i live in australia, we have a steering rack there ... plus, as said, top mounts look better

[Flinchy]

Anyone who wants to see an EFR on an N54 just google it. It does not look like fun to install:

Attachment 38837Attachment 38838

So you are going to drive for a week on the clutch to break it in? Depending on how much you drive it may take longer to fully break in.

woah wait what?... what kit is that? that looks crazy as.

ED: what's wrong with the mani design? too many bends? looks at least to be fairly EL.... looks like nowhere for the O2 sensors though?.. and how the $#@! do you bolt it on with all the piping in the way? wow yeah no thanks :/

Due to my RHDness, i'm likely going to have to go a custom manifold from a local shop down the track..

then again, i have no idea actually how much room is needed, and how much room there is.. just assuming based off others thoughts at this point. gotta get in and measure sometime.

[rader1]

performance>looks

[Flinchy]

is there actually a big performance difference bottom mount vs top mount?

[rader1]

Yup. Think of exhaust gasses as a fluid. The more volume, distance, bends and turns it has to take the worse the spool and transient response.

[Torgus]

is there actually a big performance difference bottom mount vs top mount?

Bottom mount should have shorter runners so better spool.

Yup. Think of exhaust gasses as a fluid. The more volume, distance, bends and turns it has to take the worse the spool and transient response.

Yeah there is a chance that whatever they would have gained with the EFR is now lost with that manifold design. My guess is it never was finished and can't be tuned the way it is with no 02 sensors. Unless you go stand alone or hack something together using port fuel injection.

[Flinchy]

Bottom mount should have shorter runners so better spool.



Yeah there is a chance that whatever they would have gained with the EFR is now lost with that manifold design. My guess is it never was finished and can't be tuned the way it is with no 02 sensors. Unless you go stand alone or hack something together using port fuel injection.

tighter bends though?

having a look at the offerings on the market, it doesn't seem like the 'good' bottom mounts are any/significantly shorter length than the top mounts?

that's pretty much what i thought re: tuning.. in the pics one of the runners isn't finished at least.

Yup. Think of exhaust gasses as a fluid. The more volume, distance, bends and turns it has to take the worse the spool and transient response.

yeah my knowledge (limited as it may be) on manifold design rules of thumb is shorter runner length = spool with higher exhaust velocity, longer runner length = power with better/more even flow (and easier to keep the lengths equal).

I don't really understand how a bottom mount manifold with smooth bends/equal length can have shorter-enough runners to make a difference compared to a well designed top mount?.. all the bottom mount singles i've seen besides the one above, have the merged pipes coming up over the top then back down? so why not go a top mount at that point?

I can understand for LHD people there being more room in a bottom mount though.

[rader1]

Yeah there is a chance that whatever they would have gained with the EFR is now lost with that manifold design. My guess is it never was finished and can't be tuned the way it is with no 02 sensors. Unless you go stand alone or hack something together using port fuel injection.

Unfortunately, I don't think stand alone engine management will ever work with the N54. Well, at least work with the N54 and maintain all of the things that make the N54 awesome.

[Flinchy]

Unfortunately, I don't think stand alone engine management will ever work with the N54. Well, at least work with the N54 and maintain all of the things that make the N54 awesome.

yeah, sadly... motec says they're working on it? (controlling the DI and all). who knows though. proEFI said the same thing for years and failed... on the other hand, motec is in a different league in a way.

You'd think that once they have DI control (ie the hard part) the rest wouldn't exactly be a huge leap?

[bmw335iguy]

Most, if not all of the top mounts are also twin scroll which will increase spool and most likely negate any benefits of a single scroll bottom mount that may or may not have shorter runners.

[Torgus]

As this thread has now gone into off topic land like almost every thread on this site:

I still don't understand why a log style manifold will not work perfectly fine on these cars and or why no shop has tried to fab one up. Obviously a casting costs some $$$ but you don't have to have cast to do the same thing. Supras use them and have fine spool and hit high hp. Divided log style manfiold 02 sensors go in right before the merge similar to this:

Attachment 38843

I wonder how the spool would be. You could even use a QSV to help: http://www.spracingforum.com/forums/...illet-on-Supra or http://www.spracingforum.com/forums/...ifold-on-Supra for your reading pleasure.

Thoughts?

[Flinchy]

As this thread has now gone into off topic land like almost every thread on this site:

I still don't understand why a log style manifold will not work perfectly fine on these cars and or why no shop has tried to fab one up. Obviously a casting costs some $$$ but you don't have to have cast to do the same thing. Supras use them and have fine spool and hit high hp. Divided log style manfiold 02 sensors go in right before the merge similar to this:

Attachment 38843

I wonder how the spool would be. You could even use a QSV to help: http://www.spracingforum.com/forums/...illet-on-Supra or http://www.spracingforum.com/forums/...ifold-on-Supra for your reading pleasure.

Thoughts?

can't see the attachment to see what you mean

how about making 2 separate 3cyl each logs?

i'd guess spool/power wouldn't be *as* good though?.. and would price be lower enough to be worth the tradeoff?

also can't have the O2 sensors TOO close to the cylinders, unless you like replacing them every week.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Most, if not all of the top mounts are also twin scroll which will increase spool and most likely negate any benefits of a single scroll bottom mount that may or may not have shorter runners.

Twin Scroll does help, but will yield much less of a spool increase than a properly built and sized manifold and runners. Everyone is just copying everyone else with these long runner top mount manifolds, either they do not realize or care they are slowing down the exhaust gases and losing spool doing so, but hey they are a work of art right, pretty welds for everyone to see. A bottom mount is the way to for good spool and good power, but people want to bling so they go top mount. Fashion before function as they say

[Flinchy]

Twin Scroll does help, but will yield much less of a spool increase than a properly built and sized manifold and runners. Everyone is just copying everyone else with these long runner top mount manifolds, either they do not realize or care they are slowing down the exhaust gases and losing spool doing so, but hey they are a work of art right, pretty welds for everyone to see. A bottom mount is the way to for good spool and good power, but people want to bling so they go top mount. Fashion before function as they say

are the bends not too tight on the bottom mounts? and are they really that much shorter, if the bends are still kept smooth looping around?

plus, don't long runners usually net more top end?