External methanol injection failsafe for flash tunes @BMS

[dzenno@PTF]

Thing is I still don't know what the boost curve looks like on this race map. All i know is 20 psi down low tapering to 16 at redline. The boost curve anywhere in between is anyone's guess.

with jb4 logging it, its not a guess at all

[LostMarine]

he could always buy my JB4

[themyst]

with jb4 logging it, its not a guess at all

Yeah then I lose the ability to monitor data points on my AP, points which IMO are more important for me to monitor.

Once they switch the jb to another node I'll consider it then.

[themyst]

And Terry in your new idea, can we add boost on top of the Cobb race curve?

Reason I ask is if meth isn't flowing it's still running a boost curve far too aggressive for meth only.

Can I haz a custom jb+ like mr.5 or will the off the shelf jb+ work just fine with a low additive?

[themyst]

Far too aggressive for pump only, sorry damn 10 min edit window.

[dzenno@PTF]

I don't understand your question or how the jb+ would solve your issue at all...why would you run a too aggressive base flash map and then expect to be able to raise boost on top of it further?

you'd typically go with say a stage1 aggressive map as base file and then use jb4 to up further..

[themyst]

I don't understand your question or how the jb+ would solve your issue at all

Two separate questions, sorry.

I guess I want to go with something quick and easy for a 1 - 1.5 psi gain over Cobb race.

And the original question was if I were to run the jb4 on top of Cobb race what benefit is there when it is only adding boost, not cutting it? Did Terry mean I should run the stage 0 valet with the jb4?

[dzenno@PTF]

And the original question was if I were to run the jb4 on top of Cobb race what benefit is there when it is only adding boost, not cutting it? Did Terry mean I should run the stage 0 valet with the jb4?

unfortunately, with this jb4 approach, that's not possible...i'd also much prefer the boost cut approach then the boost raise approach mainly because the DME gets to see the true load and target AFR a LOT faster/better when it knows that load then when any of it is faked...you'll see this most clearly if you say run a stg1 map and up boost to 20psi using jb4...you'll see that you'll need to up fuel pressure (at least I did on RBs) to meet the same AFR target of 12 throughout the pull...on the other hand if Cobb was running 20psi (i.e. it was setup to run that target) it'd hit 12AFR without issues and it'd take care of the right fuel pressure/injector DCs properly at all times when meth was there, otherwise JB4 just opens the wastegate and prevents it from running as high..

[themyst]

I'd want to stick with my bypass solenoid then. Its not like the jb4 could do anything if the meth failed on the stage 2 race map then.

[Terry@BMS]

I'd want to stick with my bypass solenoid then. Its not like the jb4 could do anything if the meth failed on the stage 2 race map then.

You could throw the CPS module on and have it retard 8 degrees when off meth, etc, if you wanted. But the idea with progressive meth is to start at a lower level and build up as methanol is flowing. Ideally you'd want a ~13psi map with the OEM advance curve. So when the JB4 added boost you could also get full advance.

[dzenno@PTF]

I'd want to stick with my bypass solenoid then. Its not like the jb4 could do anything if the meth failed on the stage 2 race map then.

all these failsafes/bypasses really are the for the peace of mind to say that any of them would save an engine at 6k rpm when meth fails, well, let's just say it hasn't been proven that 1) engine needs saving 2) engine would fail it boost didn't back down immediately 3) engine would be saved if boost was instantly cut...

but, personally, rather have high boost only when meth is there, too engraved in my psyche at this point

[dzenno@PTF]

Ideally you'd want a ~13psi map with the OEM advance curve. So when the JB4 added boost you could also get full advance.

+1

[themyst]

All quite valid points, the piggybacks do methanol mapping the best of the bunch.

I guess the point is I don't see any huge benefit to running a piggyback on top of a flash at this time because it overcomplicates things. I guess I am awaiting ATR to do most of this when it finally comes out.

Revisiting the JB+ idea like Mr.5 did for his GIAC tune is one I forgot all about. Probably worth 1 MPH and .1 in ET if I'm lucky.

[dzenno@PTF]

All quite valid points, the piggybacks do methanol mapping the best of the bunch.

I guess the point is I don't see any huge benefit to running a piggyback on top of a flash at this time because it overcomplicates things. I guess I am awaiting ATR to do most of this when it finally comes out.

Revisiting the JB+ idea like Mr.5 did for his GIAC tune is one I forgot all about. Probably worth 1 MPH and .1 in ET if I'm lucky.

How's the jb+ idea better (other than the price) than the jb4? Unless you don't own either one and you're thinking of buying one?

[themyst]

How's the jb+ idea better (other than the price) than the jb4? Unless you don't own either one and you're thinking of buying one?

Easy in, easy out. And yes I don't own either and want a little more kick.

[dzenno@PTF]

Easy in, easy out. And yes I don't own either and want a little more kick.

What she said..

[themyst]

I suppose the easiest thing to do is ask Rob to add one psi in the 5000-6500 RPM range and not buy a JB+... heh

[Cn555ic]

all these failsafes/bypasses really are the for the peace of mind to say that any of them would save an engine at 6k rpm when meth fails, well, let's just say it hasn't been proven that 1) engine needs saving 2) engine would fail it boost didn't back down immediately 3) engine would be saved if boost was instantly cut...

but, personally, rather have high boost only when meth is there, too engraved in my psyche at this point

+1 Totally agree at the moment the piggys have the best meth failsafe available...Allow high boost when meth flow is present.

[davidrbixby]

Any latest on progress or has the thread died out?

[Terry@BMS]

We wrote some cool flash tune meth software for the JB4 and a few guys are testing it out now.

[davidrbixby]

Keep me in the loop on that Terry. With the RBs, I'm definitely looking for every advantage to get the most from them.

[Terry@BMS]

With big turbos it's not a bad way to go. Use the flash for a base map and fuel trims, with the JB4 on top running meth integration and in dash controls.

[vasillalov]

Some of us have the P3 boost gauge which can accept 2 analog inputs. Perhaps one can wire up the meth flow sensor output directly to the P3 gauge inputs and display the meth flow data. Also, since the P3 gauge is directly plugged into the CAN bus, it might be possible to talk to the DME directly and have it shut the throttle, pull timing or dump boost.