Article: 100% E85 on the N54 with upgraded turbos? Yep. Introducing the Vargas Turbo Technology 'Shotgun' HPFP pump upgrade and a new stock frame horsepower record

[idratherbesurfing]

I wonder how double barrel plus meth would react??

[J. Dub]

Has anyone received one yet?

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Has anyone received one yet?

Shipped a ton of the single barrel's. Honestly the best set up right now is SB coupled with Port Injection. We stopped taking orders for double barrels until either we get a stand alone to control both pumps independently, as well as injector control, or we get the injector tables open. Both of those are standing in the way of more than say 600-625WHP on DI only.

[nyt]

Do you really see the point to running one of these with port injection? I fail to see the need.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Do you really see the point to running one of these with port injection? I fail to see the need.

The DI is the much more efficient way to do this, our head was never designed to see fuel, ever. Its why the ports are so small, air takes up much less room than fuel, and air. The more power you can make on DI only, the more efficient these motors are going to be, the more air the head is going to be able to flow. I actually just did this experiment today so I know this off the top of my head. Using the same map we made 700WHP on with Single barrel, and PI. I removed the SB, and used stock HPFP. The car would not get over 10 psi before HPFP was down 500 PSI causing of course lean conditions, etc, etc. Before with the single barrel, we could wait until way up top to bring in the PI, and honestly our PI maps were injecting 30-40% less fuel even up top than the BMS PI maps. Yet the car was perfectly happy. I actually just got back from testing, and I had to add 40% more fuel over the map we mad 700WHP on, and I had to bring fuel in MUCH earlier. This means you are removing flow from the head, and removing efficiency from the motor, as DI is much more efficient. That is the benefit, yes you can run PI only, but you are DUMPING fuel in the car to get big power. With the combo, the DI is doing most of the heavy lifting, and the PI is picking up the slack. Thats why I like it.

[SCGT]

The more the ecu has control over fueling, I think you're probably better off, but you're right in that the need is somewhat diminished. I wonder how it'd do with a throttle body ring; just enough to keep the valves clean and raise the ceiling a bit but most of the "work" done with direct injection and absolute ecu control. I think you also get more cooling for a given octane when using DI.

[nyt]

The DI is the much more efficient way to do this, our head was never designed to see fuel, ever. Its why the ports are so small, air takes up much less room than fuel, and air. The more power you can make on DI only, the more efficient these motors are going to be, the more air the head is going to be able to flow. I actually just did this experiment today so I know this off the top of my head. Using the same map we made 700WHP on with Single barrel, and PI. I removed the SB, and used stock HPFP. The car would not get over 10 psi before HPFP was down 500 PSI causing of course lean conditions, etc, etc. Before with the single barrel, we could wait until way up top to bring in the PI, and honestly our PI maps were injecting 30-40% less fuel even up top than the BMS PI maps. Yet the car was perfectly happy. I actually just got back from testing, and I had to add 40% more fuel over the map we mad 700WHP on, and I had to bring fuel in MUCH earlier. This means you are removing flow from the head, and removing efficiency from the motor, as DI is much more efficient. That is the benefit, yes you can run PI only, but you are DUMPING fuel in the car to get big power. With the combo, the DI is doing most of the heavy lifting, and the PI is picking up the slack. Thats why I like it.

But how much are you over revving the hpfp? whats the ratio change there?

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

But how much are you over revving the hpfp? whats the ratio change there?

Who cares? I have ran one my car for almost 2 years, and others have put a ton of miles on them. The overreving is doing nothing to shorten the life of the HPFP. It is allowing the factory DI system to support much more power which it what the Shotgun was designed to do. I can tell you are in here to argue. You can run PI by itself if you want, many do, and it works great, but for my money I am letting the DI system do as much work as it can, and adding as little fuel via PI as possible.

[rac]

. I think you also get more cooling for a given octane when using DI.

Yeah you do. DI way better than PI for cylinder temps and effective detonation resistance compared to PI. You want to minimise PI from that perspective as well. In addition to Tony's comment, petty sure I remember reading it gets better cylinder filling from the relative temp drop across the intake port.

[nyt]

Who cares? I have ran one my car for almost 2 years, and others have put a ton of miles on them. The overreving is doing nothing to shorten the life of the HPFP. It is allowing the factory DI system to support much more power which it what the Shotgun was designed to do. I can tell you are in here to argue. You can run PI by itself if you want, many do, and it works great, but for my money I am letting the DI system do as much work as it can, and adding as little fuel via PI as possible.

not arguing, just discussing all sides of this. I'm considering adding a shotgun hpfp with PI.

[terryd5150]

Tony, have you thought about posting logs of the single-barrel with inlets and an upgraded hot side charge pipe?

Could be some interesting results....

[Sticky]

Tony, have you thought about posting logs of the single-barrel with inlets and an upgraded hot side charge pipe?

Could be some interesting results....

Logs aren't posted?

[terryd5150]

Logs aren't posted?

There's logs posted in the OP, but that post pre-dates inlets and upgraded hot side charge pipes.

[Sticky]

There's logs posted in the OP, but that post pre-dates inlets and upgraded hot side charge pipes.

Good point. New logs are needed.

[Sertone777]

That's the end of the shotgun run?

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

I guess someone is just digging up old threads without looking at any new ones. We are now making almost 800WHP DI only with our double Barrel shotgun system. It is alive, and well, and works as good or better than we originally hoped. Just search this forum for VTT 777WHP

[Sertone777]

That's the end of the shotgun run?

Gotcha. No problem, I'll look. I've been reading a lot about your turbo technology. It's very appealing considering all the arguments and old arguments from many people around. I'm interested in your system to get going on buying one for myself, I was actually adding up a kit on your website today. Congrats on your progress

[V8Bait]

Well at least he searched.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Gotcha. No problem, I'll look. I've been reading a lot about your turbo technology. It's very appealing considering all the arguments and old arguments from many people around. I'm interested in your system to get going on buying one for myself, I was actually adding up a kit on your website today. Congrats on your progress

I believe what Tony meant to say was. "Yes the Shotgun is doing great, and when coupled with our GC turbos can support 800WHP" Please let us know if you have any questions, I will be glad to answer them. [email protected]