Volkswagen's diesel black hole sucks in BMW, Audi, and Bosch - Cost cutting of $335 per vehicle responsible for illegal software decision

[subaru335i]

People buy tiny little turbo diesels because the tax is lower based on displacement.

I think it depends on the country but in sweden the tax isn't based on displacement it is CO2 emissions.

[Sticky]

I think it depends on the country but in sweden the tax isn't based on displacement it is CO2 emissions.

Absolutely but the point ultimately is they have tiny little motors to have those emissions.

Not to mention their cars are about the size of an American lawnmower.

[xbox_fan]

Absolutely but the point ultimately is they have tiny little motors to have those emissions.

Not to mention their cars are about the size of an American lawnmower.

EU car tax tries to favour low emission cars in each class, you probably never seen a Audi Q7 with the V12 500hp diesel in the US, not in production anymore but hardly a "tiny" engine.

Size for size diesels have higher hp/tq numbers at lower CO2 emissions.

European cities are built mostly before the car was invented, it is seriously impractical to drive large cars. And pick-up's are considered lorry's here i.e. only farmers would drive them, no teenager would want to be seen in one.

And size usually equals weight once again it will bring up emissions and car tax.

I did a quick look at bmws.se and compared a 220i with a 220d same displacement engines in the same car using the same gearboxes.

TDI and DCT's exists to lower CO2 emissions, and car taxes is aggressively connected to CO2 emissions to try to reduce global warming.

BMW 220i (petrol)
135kw/184hp
270Nm 1250-4500rpm
CO2
138-134g/km (DCT)
146-142g/km (MT)


BMW 220d (diesel)
140kw/190hp
400Nm 1750-2500rpm
CO2
107-99g/km (DCT)
115-107g/km (MT)

[DavidV]

[subaru335i]

EU car tax tries to favour low emission cars in each class, you probably never seen a Audi Q7 with the V12 500hp diesel in the US, not in production anymore but hardly a "tiny" engine.

Size for size diesels have higher hp/tq numbers at lower CO2 emissions.

European cities are built mostly before the car was invented, it is seriously impractical to drive large cars. And pick-up's are considered lorry's here i.e. only farmers would drive them, no teenager would want to be seen in one.

And size usually equals weight once again it will bring up emissions and car tax.

I did a quick look at bmws.se and compared a 220i with a 220d same displacement engines in the same car using the same gearboxes.

TDI and DCT's exists to lower CO2 emissions, and car taxes is aggressively connected to CO2 emissions to try to reduce global warming.

BMW 220i (petrol)
135kw/184hp
270Nm 1250-4500rpm
CO2
138-134g/km (DCT)
146-142g/km (MT)


BMW 220d (diesel)
140kw/190hp
400Nm 1750-2500rpm
CO2
107-99g/km (DCT)
115-107g/km (MT)

Sweden is more strict I think than the rest of Europe right? The problem with European emissions laws is they place too much emphasis on only CO2 and not the other components of emissions. Like particulate and NOx which cause ground level ozone and smog which is very bad for respiratory health. Cities like Paris have very poor air quality compared to US cities I have seen.

[xbox_fan]

Sweden is more strict I think than the rest of Europe right? The problem with European emissions laws is they place too much emphasis on only CO2 and not the other components of emissions. Like particulate and NOx which cause ground level ozone and smog which is very bad for respiratory health. Cities like Paris have very poor air quality compared to US cities I have seen.

Pretty sure there is no diesels sold without particle-filters anymore. NOx is bad but a lesser bad than global warming. Direct injected petrol engines has higher levels of particulate emmisions than traditional PI. But I assume soon internal combustion engines will be track-only much like horse riding.

[Sticky]

EU car tax tries to favour low emission cars in each class, you probably never seen a Audi Q7 with the V12 500hp diesel in the US, not in production anymore but hardly a "tiny" engine.

That's right and you won't see it in the US as it will never pass emissions.

European cities are built mostly before the car was invented, it is seriously impractical to drive large cars. And pick-up's are considered lorry's here i.e. only farmers would drive them, no teenager would want to be seen in one.

That hardly applies to every European city. Plus quite a bit of them have been destroyed and rebuilt through wars and so forth. While in general you can walk more in Europe the 'town center' aspect isn't what it used to be as cities get bigger and more people can afford cars now.

TDI and DCT's exists to lower CO2 emissions, and car taxes is aggressively connected to CO2 emissions to try to reduce global warming.

Look it doesn't matter diesel isn't a cleaner design.

[xbox_fan]

That's right and you won't see it in the US as it will never pass emissions.

That hardly applies to every European city. Plus quite a bit of them have been destroyed and rebuilt through wars and so forth. While in general you can walk more in Europe the 'town center' aspect isn't what it used to be as cities get bigger and more people can afford cars

Look it doesn't matter diesel isn't a cleaner design.

Diesels emitts more NOx and particles than petrol but much less CO2. And since global warming is the biggest problem vs smog they are a lesser bad.

Big cars in general isn't popular in EU for several reasons, there isn't really any market for them. In most cities public transportation is for most ppl faster and simpler than taking the car.

Personally I need a big car (4 kids), but a Surburban i.e. would be stupid expensive to tax (CO2 emmision based tax), I can't park it anywhere (since parking spots are the size of an Aygo) and resell value is very low (since very few ppl wants a car this size)

[xbox_fan]

@Sticky A 2016 Toyota Auris (VW Golf sized) list price starts at $25k in Sweden. In the US a Ford Explorer list price starts at $30k.

Cars are cheap in the US, wish I could convince the wife to move...

[Sticky]

Diesels emitts more NOx and particles than petrol but much less CO2. And since global warming is the biggest problem vs smog they are a lesser bad.

But NOx is more dangerous to human beings.

Big cars in general isn't popular in EU for several reasons, there isn't really any market for them. In most cities public transportation is for most ppl faster and simpler than taking the car.

Yep. Plus smaller distances. Americans have more of a car culture.

[xbox_fan]

But NOx is more dangerous to human beings.

And here is where VW decided to cheat, other manufacturers use expensive tech to lower NOx emmisions from their diesels, but to save approx. 400$ per car VW "solved it" with software...

[Sticky]

And here is where VW decided to cheat, other manufacturers use expensive tech to lower NOx emmisions from their diesels, but to save approx. 400$ per car VW "solved it" with software...

Right. But that doesn't make diesels cleaner and in general diesel fuel contains more oil and it is tougher for them to meet American emission standards. Which is why VW cheated the EPA.

[xbox_fan]

Right. But that doesn't make diesels cleaner and in general diesel fuel contains more oil and it is tougher for them to meet American emission standards. Which is why VW cheated the EPA.

yes, the fuel in itself is worse than petrol and requires a more complicated engine. But I still think it's a viable solution to lower CO2 emmisions

[Sticky]

yes, the fuel in itself is worse than petrol and requires a more complicated engine. But I still think it's a viable solution to lower CO2 emmisions

I think there definitely is merit to diesel motors and they definitely have application and can be clean.

Unfortunately this VW mess is going to set diesel back in the USA.

[xbox_fan]

I think there definitely is merit to diesel motors and they definitely have application and can be clean.

Unfortunately this VW mess is going to set diesel back in the USA.

Lol 11/02/2015: EPA, California Notify Volkswagen of Additional Clean Air Act Violations

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...257EF10061867B

They really screwed up, Cayenne & Touareg also on the naughty list!

Affected diesel models include:

-- 2014 VW Touareg
-- 2015 Porsche Cayenne
-- 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8, A8L, and Q5