VTT Stage 3 ACN 91 585WHP / 500WTQ

[bigdnno98]

I understand where he's going. Wants to get it setup and making passes before he adds more complexity to the setup. I'm sure if he's running the car and not getting the 60' times or launches he's looking for he'd consider it once the setup is maxed out.

Done. Not sure why not if your going for big power I think having NOS as an option isn't a bad thing. FI is FI.

[Torgus]

I rep'd.

[Tony@VargasTurboTech]

Done. Not sure why not if your going for big power I think having NOS as an option isn't a bad thing. FI is FI.

Oh don't get me wrong the stage 3 car will 100% have a small nitrous kit at some point to get the bigger turbos spooled. Just want to see what we can do without it first.

[djpaulie]

Torgus...do you not recognize me? I know I haven't been as active as normal in the past months but I'm well aware of the differences and advantages. When it comes to upgraded turbo cars (should be assumed since we're talking about breaking records) then the 6AT is at a huge disadvantage only being able to launch at the 1500RPM or whatever it is that the car allows. At this point the 6MT has the best chance at launching, but I don't understand why we haven't seen some of these upgraded turbo 6MT guys launching on the dragstrip.

I attended the ST Louis Street Car Takeover with my big turbo 6MT to dial in the set up as all was new. I tried babying it in to get it going, tried revving and dumping the clutch, tried revving and releasing smoothly and all that happened every single times was the car just wants to fall on it's face. Bot sure exactly why I hope to figure it out soon but this car is also my DD so launching hard repeatedly isn't very high on my to do list with stock axles, DS, and diff haha. We were more focused on tuning the car that day and discovering any potential issues then we were getting a launch right. I will return to a track somewhat soon and see how things go when I get time and same just in case funds.

It's going to take a similar setup to Shiv's to break his record. He was on 16" or 17" lightweight wheels with Hoosiers, DSS axles, very expensive coilovers, etc. Then we start getting into, will just the 2step spool a large turbo? Has anyone tried it? What kind of boost are turbos like 6466s seeing on just a 2step. If not a lot, then we're talking about having to find a way to anti-lag. Etc. You don't just show up to the track with a big turbo car and run 10s because your car makes 700HP. Trust me, I know.

I agree, I debated upgrading axles for a while but that leaves only the DS as the known weak point and it's a lot more expensive then a axle haha. I have tried 2 step a couple times and you can do nothing really more then about the same as Tony said a couple PSI or so. The thing about anti-la is from my understanding it is VERY hard on your motor components particularly the rings. I would love to upgrade axles and DS but from what i'm to understand it will do no good in the DS dept. The portion that breaks is the spline-ing to run to the differential which doesn't change even with a carbon fiber DS, the only way to remedy this semi-permanently is to change it to the M3 bolted style and go with a Carbon shaft but this also means getting an M3 rear diff to match then M3 axles as they are not the same. The whole swap I have looked at many times however I want a 1/2 mile car so I would like taller gears or at least the same and the only used options for the M3 diffs all are much shorter due to the 8300 RPM red line which presents yet another issue. You can get one ordered with proper gearing, a custom DS from DSS and i believe the DSS M3 axles would work in a e90 with N54 but am not 100% on the length difference or non-difference. Long story short for the N54 there is no bullet proof drive line. With the info I found available the swap would run around 8k+ which is well outside of my budget for the car. could one keep putting factory parts in it for less? yes but it sure feels like a waste.

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong I would love alternative solutions but from the knowledge I have and the understanding of what I have read/ seen this is what we are stuck with.

[bigdnno98]

Anti-lag isn't bad for your motor it's bad for your turbo, kind of. I've been running anti-lag every pass at the track for the last couple trips. What it does is retard timing and increase fuel. The unburned fuel enters the exhaust manifold or turbine housing and ignites in there, thus the flames and popping sounds. This is kind of hard on the turbine wheel if you sit on it too long. I know guys that have used anti-lag on the same turbo the whole season who no negative effects. The key is having it setup properly and not staying on it too long.

[bigdnno98]

The key to launching a big turbo car is either A. very high RPM on the 2 step, like 6000 or B. anti-lag at a lower RPM to build boost at the line. Anti-lag will be better on your drive train, high rpm 2step will be better for your turbo.

[bigdnno98]

Anti-lag

https://youtu.be/uV84cAtvixA

[Sticky]

Anti-lag

https://youtu.be/uV84cAtvixA

[djpaulie]

Anti-lag isn't bad for your motor it's bad for your turbo, kind of. I've been running anti-lag every pass at the track for the last couple trips. What it does is retard timing and increase fuel. The unburned fuel enters the exhaust manifold or turbine housing and ignites in there, thus the flames and popping sounds. This is kind of hard on the turbine wheel if you sit on it too long. I know guys that have used anti-lag on the same turbo the whole season who no negative effects. The key is having it setup properly and not staying on it too long.

Great info, thank you! I didn't fully understand that. Yeah I suppose short usage to keep the EGT's within an acceptable range as well.

Side note for me is before any more launches I need to change out bushings on the sub-frame as I have horrible wheel hop

[bigdnno98]

What size tires and how much air pressure are you running? Usually the leading contributor to wheel hop.

[bigdnno98]

Lock down kit would help also.

[djpaulie]

What size tires and how much air pressure are you running? Usually the leading contributor to wheel hop.

I'm running a PSS 265 in the rear 11.1 in and the pressure is around 34-36 psi give or take based on temp. Th reason i'm starting wit the sub-frame bushings is when WOT I can physically feel the sub-frame sifting from side to side. I was skeptical of this well before the big turbo which has of course amplified the feel.

Lock down kit would help also.

I agree it's on my list of todo's but untill I decide for sure what I eould like to do drive line wise perhaps the swap some day I don't want to put one in and wind up needing to sell it should it not fir an M3 large diff though I don't know of any pumpkin differences.

[mjmarovi]

Sorry I thought you were talking the N54 platform in general I know you know your stuff.

If I had to guess by this fall there should be some others in the 10s.

I would hope so, I guess it just amazes me that with the number of higher horsepower N54 powered cars out there now we're aren't seeing more low track times. I suppose it's a bit frustrating, but I know the platform has made strides in the last year or so. My personal goal is 10 second passes on Stage 2+ with a 6AT. I have a built trans ready to go, just need to get the other supporting mods. It's tough, I took a huge loss with the single turbo setup. I liked that setup, but to be honest I almost think it's too much for this car. I'm hoping the sweet spot for 6AT's will be 600-650whp with a built trans and all supporting mods. Should make for a fun car. I see 6MT's going a bit further but eventually this chassis will be overpowered.

[Mrpikolo]

I would hope so, I guess it just amazes me that with the number of higher horsepower N54 powered cars out there now we're aren't seeing more low track times. I suppose it's a bit frustrating, but I know the platform has made strides in the last year or so. My personal goal is 10 second passes on Stage 2+ with a 6AT. I have a built trans ready to go, just need to get the other supporting mods. It's tough, I took a huge loss with the single turbo setup. I liked that setup, but to be honest I almost think it's too much for this car. I'm hoping the sweet spot for 6AT's will be 600-650whp with a built trans and all supporting mods. Should make for a fun car. I see 6MT's going a bit further but eventually this chassis will be overpowered.

I agree 100% on the high times. Though, it does seem that the n54 community in general is not concerned about drag racing that much. There are not many big contenders, yet.

@bigdnno98 @Sticky Those look like your typical dsmlink launch control. IIRC, their anti-lag setting works a little different. At least, that is how I always understood it.

I haven't seen much from the drag racers, but are they properly pre-loading their suspension? This device also might help with easier, higher rpm launches to keep the turbos spooled and save on drivetrain stress.

http://magnusmotorsports.com/product...ontrol-device/

[bigdnno98]

My buddy has one on his DSM. Works pretty well. A real PITA to get dialed in though.

[Abacus38]

$#@!! Just tried to pos rep you, and hit neg rep. Someone offset that for me please! You forgot I am talking about cars with little to no computer tuning, some with turbos blowing down through carbs... There are much better ways to control it now. The WOTbox, actually has a nice NOS controller as well, that works with the 2-step

Yup you can't used the JB4 with nitrous and NLS/2step they used the same output to trigger the system so its one or the other unfortunately

[Mrpikolo]

Yup you can't used the JB4 with nitrous and NLS/2step they used the same output to trigger the system so its one or the other unfortunately

Could a 5 pin relay be used to activated the NLS/2step when switched, and the nitrous when not? This could be done through another switch to work on WOT only, or a boost switch to be turned off.

[Abacus38]

No unfortunately :-(

[The Ghost]

Yup you can't used the JB4 with nitrous and NLS/2step they used the same output to trigger the system so its one or the other unfortunately

Also, those of us using dual LPFP (Fuel it stage 3), we use the nitrous trigger to activate the second fuel pump.

[djpaulie]

Also, those of us using dual LPFP (Fuel it stage 3), we use the nitrous trigger to activate the second fuel pump.

Yes but you can opt for a hobbs switch and run it that way. You can maintain the NLS or nitrous through bit HP and a 6MT

Should be able to run a separate controller for the nitrous especially if you are only using it to spool the turbo. Just will need to be extremely careful when tuning to ensure the proper amount of fuel is being sent to accommodate the nitrous. Would need it's own dedicated map across the board, flash, AIC map, and JB map.

The best way to do so would be a hobbs for your dual LPFP, JB4 for nitrous, and a WOT BOX for NLS/2 step. Not sure what is needed to set this up appropriately though. Haven't had experience with a WOT BOX

[bigdnno98]

Right, the WOTBox has it's own nitrous trigger though. You can use that to control the nitrous and the JB4 to control the fuel pumps right? Most of us in the 4G63 world all use Hobbs switches for the second fuel pump.

[djpaulie]

Right, the WOTBox has it's own nitrous trigger though. You can use that to control the nitrous and the JB4 to control the fuel pumps right? Most of us in the 4G63 world all use Hobbs switches for the second fuel pump.

i'm unsure of the WOT BOX and nitrous but yes the JB can run the fuel pumps. Really all it needs is a signal wire based off of some form of boost reference to allow power through to the second pump. You can trigger them via hobbs, JB, or a 3rd party trigger and Fuel-it is good enough to even provide installation kits based on chosen form of reference too.

[klipseracer]