BBFlash maps for the FBO 335i

[vadim83]

Searched but haven't found anything yet - wondering is there any maps for the FBO n54 to flash with BBflash or it's only used to flash backend map to work with JB4?

[bradsm87]

It can certainly be used to flash a FBO map without a JB4 but it generally requires a lot of dyno time and you'll struggle to find someone who is willing to give their map away for free.

[V8Bait]

As aggressive as the stage 1 tunes already are just add timing slowly to the high load areas and you'd likely be in a good place... maybe adjust wastegate control tables slightly, but stage 1 boost is plenty high for the turbos already imo. Datalog and make sure you don't get any timing drops. I've done this a handful of times for local guys, many dislike the vishnu throttle mapping anyway so it pays to not use the OTS stuff directly.

[Sticky]

Searched but haven't found anything yet - wondering is there any maps for the FBO n54 to flash with BBflash or it's only used to flash backend map to work with JB4?

It's mostly used to flash the backend maps as someone would have to develop some free maps and... well, nobody wants to give away for free what they charge for.

Tuners really don't want to develop any maps for it. I mean maybe we could get some made for a cheap price though.

[rawad1017]

i honestly see it as a perfect marketing opportunity for tuners. think about it this way..

tuner creates demo map, almost but not quite as good as their stage 1
tuner brands and labels the $#@! out of the map
"if you want even better results than this buy our stage one for $x"
???
profit

[Sticky]

They could do that, yes. It's not a bad idea.

[Ak335i]

ok. but how much are ppl really getting out of this other than headaches? not to be a debbis downer but ur better off adding boost and keeping timing reasonable.

stock turbos can only do so much before they are just out of their efficiency and makes gobs of heat
seems like marginal gains with unnecessary risk.

but i guess it may be fun for a tinkerer

i have to be honest, my car has been far more reliable with the single turbo than it ever was with maxed out twins

[V8Bait]

The problem with canned tunes is everybody wants/needs something different. In Houston alone I've helped probably too many guys tune their setup and of course free when I'm in town. I've had (off the top of my head): a handful of jb4 users, some fbo, some stock, some in between. One was stock with meth. There's a few that had no tune, so bbflash only. Some want E85 tunes, with and without jb4. A few added mods after getting a tune. I mean honestly, there's no such thing as a OTS that works for everyone. Terry has a few flashes, the better ones get bad mileage because they are race flashes. The normal flashes aren't aggressive enough for others if they run E85. It really helps to learn what the tables do and just do it yourself imo, if the "tuners" don't want to take your money just read up.

Pump, E30, E50, meth, FBO, intercooler/no intercooler, throttle pedal preferences, how aggressive do you want (track endurance, strip kill mode, street balanced) etc will all effect timing, afr, boost and a few other aspects. What stage does each fall under? Sure, FBO+93 and stock E30+91 are kinda similar but E30+93+FBO is much different, which stage is which? Imo if you buy a Cobb, buy a protune. If you bbflash, start reading and logging. It only takes an afternoon to dial a setup in pretty well on this car.

/endrant

[Ak335i]

The problem with canned tunes is everybody wants/needs something different. In Houston alone I've helped probably too many guys tune their setup and of course free when I'm in town. I've had (off the top of my head): a handful of jb4 users, some fbo, some stock, some in between. One was stock with meth. There's a few that had no tune, so bbflash only. Some want E85 tunes, with and without jb4. A few added mods after getting a tune. I mean honestly, there's no such thing as a OTS that works for everyone. Terry has a few flashes, the better ones get bad mileage because they are race flashes. The normal flashes aren't aggressive enough for others if they run E85. It really helps to learn what the tables do and just do it yourself imo, if the "tuners" don't want to take your money just read up.

Pump, E30, E50, meth, FBO, intercooler/no intercooler, throttle pedal preferences, how aggressive do you want (track endurance, strip kill mode, street balanced) etc will all effect timing, afr, boost and a few other aspects. What stage does each fall under? Sure, FBO+93 and stock E30+91 are kinda similar but E30+93+FBO is much different, which stage is which? Imo if you buy a Cobb, buy a protune. If you bbflash, start reading and logging. It only takes an afternoon to dial a setup in pretty well on this car.

/endrant

Makes sense

[135Hoser]

i honestly see it as a perfect marketing opportunity for tuners. think about it this way..

tuner creates demo map, almost but not quite as good as their stage 1
tuner brands and labels the $#@! out of the map
"if you want even better results than this buy our stage one for $x"
???
profit

??? being 'user goes home, reads off stage X flash using same BB tool, posts on internet for everyone to have, no more business for tuning shop'

Unless the BB/TunerPro stuff offers some form of IP protection nobody big is going to use it. That's one of the reasons Cobb is so successful. Tunes can't be read directly (You can do some reverse engineering by doing data logging) as well as them being VIN Locked and can only be opened by THEIR copy of ATR.

[rawad1017]

??? being 'user goes home, reads off stage X flash using same BB tool, posts on internet for everyone to have, no more business for tuning shop'

with that logic i can use the BB tool to read anyone's tune can i not?

[V8Bait]

with that logic i can use the BB tool to read anyone's tune can i not?

You can not. You can read stock tunes and tunes based on stock ROMs that have corresponding XDF's defining the binary data accurately. You cannot read an ecu that is locked/encrypted by Cobb. And even if you could you'd need a custom xdf as they have some modified logic in the assembly code. Even if it's minor it would potentially change things.

[rawad1017]

You can not. You can read stock tunes and tunes based on stock ROMs that have corresponding XDF's defining the binary data accurately. You cannot read an ecu that is locked/encrypted by Cobb. And even if you could you'd need a custom xdf as they have some modified logic in the assembly code. Even if it's minor it would potentially change things.

okay but the stage x software the bbflash user would buy would be locked the same way

[V8Bait]

okay but the stage x software the bbflash user would buy would be locked the same way

Locked how? Tuner pro is basically a glorified binary/xml editor, it won't lock it or encrypt it for you. And bimmerboost flash suite doesn't have the option to disable reads on the ecu. If it did it would be 100% defeating the purpose of OPEN source.

You want closed, well there's Cobb. They are great. I'd relate them to Apple, but I'd feel bad because I like Cobb more than Apple.

A tuner could easily dyno tune a car using the software and some do. And a dyno tune for one car isn't necessarily perfect for another. I'm pretty sure some shops will do that for you, just not the ones that specialize in OTS and remote tuning, because they already have their business model worked out.