Procede with DTC question

[88irocvert]

Hi,

I have a 2008 535i to which I've installed a Procede V5. The car is equipped with active steering and DTC and I remember reading somewhere that I might need custom tuning or different settings for the Traction Threshold. Is it both? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I only ask because I've had this setup for a while but recently I got on it a little too much on an on ramp and the traction control was activated several times in a couple seconds and the car went into limp mode (or at least the SEL light came on). Thanks.

[Sticky]

I'm not aware of different traction control software available.

Anyone?

[scottp999]

In the 335 (mine is 2007) you have DSC active at car startup. DSC is the most active/agressive traction intervention. You hit the DTC button once (briefly), and it turns DSC off and DTC on. DTC is a less agressive at traction control than DSC. I always drive with DTC on. Other option is to turn traction control all the way off by holding the button in for 5 seconds. I don't recommend that. Only time I have done it is while on the dyno, or other situations that require no intervention.

The other thing you can do is adjust the traction threshold down from 100% in the procede user settings. I run mine at 100% with DTC on and seems like a good combo. I don't mind mild traction intervention if the conditions are not optimal.

"Traction Threshold (0-100%)
○ The ignition retard based on wheelspin. 0-100%. 100% = inactive.
More % allows more power/more wheelspin. 0% equals the most timing
retard (power loss) upon wheelspin. Common value is around 20-50%"

[klipseracer]

In the 335 (mine is 2007) you have DSC active at car startup. DSC is the most active/agressive traction intervention. You hit the DTC button once (briefly), and it turns DSC off and DTC on. DTC is a less agressive at traction control than DSC. I always drive with DTC on. Other option is to turn traction control all the way off by holding the button in for 5 seconds. I don't recommend that. Only time I have done it is while on the dyno, or other situations that require no intervention.

The other thing you can do is adjust the traction threshold down from 100% in the procede user settings. I run mine at 100% with DTC on and seems like a good combo. I don't mind mild traction intervention if the conditions are not optimal.

"Traction Threshold (0-100%)
○ The ignition retard based on wheelspin. 0-100%. 100% = inactive.
More % allows more power/more wheelspin. 0% equals the most timing
retard (power loss) upon wheelspin. Common value is around 20-50%"

I totally just negged you on accident. Someone even it out for him.

[scottp999]

As far as I know, DTC works by applying brakes, while procede traction control reduces timing to drop torque and does no other type of intervention. It can drop up to 15 degrees of timing and 150lb of torque. Will work with DTC on or off and the procede traction threshhold is not a saftey system. Again recommend leaving at least DTC on.

"..Procede ...Spark Retard-based Traction/Launch control system. Unlike the factory traction control nannies, our system is almost completely transparent to the driver. No hiccups, surges, bucking, etc,. But most important for performance, it allows a mild degree of wheelspin before intervening (with spark retard). And even better, the degree of Procede intervention is dependent upon the severity/duration of the wheelspin event"

"Keep in mind that the Procede's traction control will never close the throttle or apply the brakes automatically. It simply reacts to wheel slippage by retarding up to 15 deg of timing which results in a short term engine torque loss of up to 150lb-ft."

"v5 traction control does not adjust brake force or brake distribution. It only drops engine torqe through ignition advance adjustments when it detects power-induced wheelspin. It is not a stabiliity control system by any means."

Be careful out there.

[klipseracer]

In the 335 (mine is 2007) you have DSC active at car startup. DSC is the most active/agressive traction intervention. You hit the DTC button once (briefly), and it turns DSC off and DTC on. DTC is a less agressive at traction control than DSC. I always drive with DTC on. Other option is to turn traction control all the way off by holding the button in for 5 seconds. I don't recommend that. Only time I have done it is while on the dyno, or other situations that require no intervention.

The other thing you can do is adjust the traction threshold down from 100% in the procede user settings. I run mine at 100% with DTC on and seems like a good combo. I don't mind mild traction intervention if the conditions are not optimal.

"Traction Threshold (0-100%)
○ The ignition retard based on wheelspin. 0-100%. 100% = inactive.
More % allows more power/more wheelspin. 0% equals the most timing
retard (power loss) upon wheelspin. Common value is around 20-50%"

Also, I thought it was the other way. I thought DTC and DSC were both enabled. DSC is dynamic stability control which prevents sliding and fish tailing and DTC controlled the brakes by stopping burning out and losing traction. Pushing the button once turned dynamic traction control off but the stability portion related to getting out of control was still enabled and holding it down again turned it all off. Is this wrong?

[scottp999]

I totally just negged you on accident. Someone even it out for him.

No worries. Stuff happens! Would appreciate someone evening it out.

[scottp999]

APushing the button once turned dynamic traction control off but the stability portion related to getting out of control was still enabled a d holding it down again turned it all off. Is this wrong?

I think your understanding is not accurate but would have to go refresh my memory. My memory is DSC is active at car start up and is the most intervention (operates throttle closure + brakes) when you hit the DTC button briefly the DTC light comes on and DTC just uses the brakes. You hold down the DTC button for about 5 seconds to turn off both.

[scottp999]

Both of us may be a little off: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...n_control.html :

Dynamic Traction Control (DTC).


Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) allows more wheel slip and thus a more dynamic driving style with higher wheel traction and DSC controlling stability. A small amount of spin on the drive wheels improves traction when pulling off from a standstill in snow or on loose terrain.

Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) is a sub-function of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system that can be turned on and off. DTC has two major roles: to regulate traction and to enable sports-style driving while providing active stability control.
When the drive wheels start losing traction the DSC automatically begins stabilisation measures. The Dynamic Stability Control system curbs the engine output and stops slip on the wheels. In exceptional situations, however, a small amount of wheel slip can be an advantage.

When driving in deep snow, slush or on loose terrain a small amount of wheel spin improves traction. For these occasions, as well as those when the drivers want a sportier driving style, the DTC can be activated by pressing a button and this allows more slip and reduces the DSC’s curbing of the engine. The result: better traction and more thrust.

The DTC also makes driving on snow and ice-free roads more dynamic. When activated, the DTC allows sporty drivers more room to manoeuvre around curves than the Dynamic Stability Control and even permits controlled drifts. The driver retains complete control over the vehicle in every situation and the Dynamic Stability Control’s stabilising measures remain active even when the DTC is activated.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...bility_control :

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC).


Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) adds to safety by facilitating vehicle control even in adverse driving conditions or on tough surfaces.

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) is the nucleus of the chassis control systems in BMW vehicles. It ensures the highest possible levels of stability when driving, and it maximizes traction of all wheels when setting off or accelerating. It is able to detect the first signs of oversteering or understeering and helps keep the vehicle safely on course, even if the tyres have varying levels of grip.
Sophisticated sensors permanently check how the vehicle is driving. Information comes a range of sensors monitoring wheel rotation, steering angle, lateral forces, pressure and yaw (degree of rotation around the vertical axis). A simulation model stored in the DSC control unit to ensure stability ("one-/two-track model") and can be compared information coming from the steering wheel and accelerator: if there is too great a difference between the model and how the vehicle is currently travelling, DSC acts to increase stability or traction.
The engine and brake management systems are targeted specifically; xDrive is also included in all-wheel drive vehicles. Reducing or increasing the engine torque or braking individual wheels can improve stability and traction. Active Steering’s integrated yaw regulation system can even help significantly reduce steering effort and the extent of DSC’s contribution to stability.

[klipseracer]

So DTC is DSC lite. Its something that is enabled, when in actuality its disabling features.

[DavidV]

I totally just negged you on accident. Someone even it out for him.

Done with a bonus

[Sticky]

I totally just negged you on accident. Someone even it out for him.

I did.

[marcvtec]

Rep+
now someone give me one back lol

[scottp999]

rep'd you back.

[Sticky]

Rep fest in here.

[88irocvert]

Thank you all for all the feedback. This is a great discussion. I'll definitely be changing my Traction Treshold to 100% since I don't know if Vishnu designed it to work with DSC and I don't want two different systems "curbing" the engine. That being said, I need to apologize beause my question was based on a blurb at the bottom of page 7 of the Procede user manual which states, "*Note: For DCT equipped and “is” vehicles, custom maps may apply." Well, when I fist read it, I thought it was a misprint until i found out that DCT stands for dual clutch tranny and it wouldn't apply anyway since my car is 6MT. Anti-Flame suit...ON!!!