BMW F10 M5 Dyno Testing Stock Car For Consistency

[Imran@Evolve]

We carried out some testing on a stock F10 M5 to see how consistent the power would be after back to back dyno runs. Car is 100% stock with about 8000 miles on it and we measured the IAT after the MAF. Here is the video with dyno graphs at the end.



Here are the dyno graphs.

All dyno runs WHP vs WTQ



Highest/Average/Lowest dyno runs WHP vs AFR



Highest/Average/Lowest dyno runs WHP vs IAT (measured after MAF)

[Sticky]

BMW marketing has practically managed to convince people that their turbo motors are the greatest thing ever invented and a necessary evolution which will result in peace on earth and prosperity for all mankind. Fortunately, there are people out there who actually do real work and testing with these motors and what you are about to see is one of the downsides of the turbo generation. That would be the tremendous heat generated and power loss.

The new BMW M cars are not exactly light. The F10 M5 is heavy and it takes a good amount of turbo torque to get it moving. But that generates heat, a lot of it. Several wide open throttle pulls will result in what you see below which is horsepower going from 498.2 at the wheels to 443.2 for a loss of 50 wheel horsepower after seven WOT (wide open throttle) pulls.

On a hot day not only will one lose a lot of power after a few blasts but this is not a motor designed with the racetrack in mind. Yes, all motors suffer from heat soak, but the classic naturally aspirated motors do have an advantage in power retention and avoiding limp mode to the heat generated overwhelming the cooling system as they do not put out as much heat and do not requite as much cooling.

The odd thing about this is that the motors are supposed to be Motorsport derived. This is BMW M after all, isn't it? Well it's supposed to be but what this graph shows you is that the new M cars are more suited to quick wide open throttle blasts than sustained runs. That used to be AMG's game. Now it's BMW M's.

All dyno runs WHP vs WTQ

Highest/Average/Lowest dyno runs WHP vs AFR

Highest/Average/Lowest dyno runs WHP vs IAT (measured after MAF)

[inlineS54B32]

The WHP vs AFR graph is very interesting to me... You can definitely infer a lot about that information - looks like the DME is being a nanny to keep things (hopefully overly?) safe.

It really is an incredible amount of power loss for a car of this caliber (as you said, it's an M car). I am curious how badly this would happen at the track with more airflow - regardless, it's not a good thing for those that take their car to the track. Consistency is key.

I really hope BMW shapes up - at least the motorsport division. It's shameful.

[Sticky]

The WHP vs AFR graph is very interesting to me... You can definitely infer a lot about that information - looks like the DME is being a nanny to keep things (hopefully overly?) safe.

It really is an incredible amount of power loss for a car of this caliber (as you said, it's an M car). I am curious how badly this would happen at the track with more airflow - regardless, it's not a good thing for those that take their car to the track. Consistency is key.

I really hope BMW shapes up - at least the motorsport division. It's shameful.

If they want to give people torque monster for a straightline that's fine. But where's the balance? Porsche - 911 Turbo / GT3. Mercedes - E63/CLS 63 then the C63 and SLS Black Series for the track.

The other companies have serious track options. BMW doesn't once the E92 M3 is gone and even then the other two guys offer far higher track performance thresholds.

But a few seconds of fun is the new market. The N54 started it.

[KB]

I wonder if this is how BMW get the HP figures for their new turbo motors. Maybe they measure the HP after some heat soak and this is why we think they underate the engines but in reality they are what they say they are. We always see dynos with cool engines and try to make the conditions so we get the highest reading. What do you guys think?

[Sticky]

Maybe they measure the HP after some heat soak and this is why we think they underate the engines

No they're definitely overrating them not compensating for heat soak.

[Legionofboom]

Meth

[DFM]

Meth

A stock M5 should not need meth to maintain its level of performance.

[Legionofboom]

A stock M5 should not need meth to maintain its level of performance.

It also isn't ment to be run without proper airflow, and that picture is hood down with only a single fan.

And I obviously wasn't talking about stock car's, Im not sure the point in all of that tomfoolery.

[Sticky]

It also isn't ment to be run without proper airflow, and that picture is hood down with only a single fan.

It will go into limp mode even with 'proper' airflow.

[BlackJetE90OC]

M5 you can almost deal with heat soak. Owners aren't buying them as track cars.

But when you consider what BMW is doing with the next M3/M4, then I get worried. Will it be able to even handle one 20-30 min track session? Before engine management starts reducing power, or all together goes into limp mode. BMW better perform magic, there is a reason why FI cars have reps for being headaches on hot track days.

Wouldn't it be funny to go to a future BMWCCA track event and everyone is in the garages cooling their cars down. While guys in their E46/E92 M3's are ripping laps off.

[BlackJetE90OC]

It will go into limp mode even with 'proper' airflow.

I went to BMWCCA event not too long ago. They were giving rides in the new M5 around COTA. It took only 1.5 laps before in went into limp mode. The driver said it had been happening all weekend.

[Sticky]

I went to BMWCCA event not too long ago. They were giving rides in the new M5 around COTA. It took only 1.5 laps before in went into limp mode. The driver said it had been happening all weekend.

I'm shocked.

[mm28]

one thing to keep in mind is that the fan being use on the dyno is nowhere near powerful enough to simulate the force of wind being ram into the radiator in a real life 4th gear (or 5th gear?) 130+mph pull. if one stand in front of one of these fans, in most cases it would feel like sticking your hand out the window while travelling at 70mph.

edit: the point had been mentioned in the posts above, guess I should read the entire thread before responding next time...

[Imran@Evolve]

Regarding the fan. It had enough airflow to let the car produce 498 WHP on a conservative Dyno Dynamics once. The airlfow didn't change after that. As you can see from the graphs the IAT did. Granted until we do the same test on the road we will not know how much faster the IAT will recover.

Here is a video of the fan we use. Yes its one fan but its so much more powerful than the multiple "leaf blowers" and "carpet dryers" I see most places using.



I will post the calculated flywheel graph when I get the chance. I think there is something in the notion that they have quoted the BHP that it makes consistently and not the one off higher figure.

You will see much more from us in terms of testing and development on this platform in the coming months.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Ok amigos having a 335d I had the same issues I have pics of the OEM IC compared to the WAGNER IC, its just a simple plug and play and that my friends has made huge differance in how the car handles the hooter temps as we do here in Puerto Rico

[Puerto Rican 335d]

oops here it is

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Sticky cant upload it

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Sent you a PM and txt msg ok

[Sticky]

Sticky cant upload it

Looks fine to me...

[andrew20195]

It had enough airflow to let the car produce 498 WHP on a conservative Dyno Dynamics once.

Out of curiosity, how conservative do you think it is? BMW rates the engine at 560 crank horsepower. 498 would be only a 12% drivetrain loss, which seems low. 443.2 from 560 would be a 20% drivetrain loss, which could be within reason for a conservative dyno. Maybe BMW does measure power output in a partial heat soak situation?

Shame about the M5's limping at the track, but that's what happens when you try and cram so much equipment into such a tight area. It's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of mounting turbos in the valley.

[Sticky]

Out of curiosity, how conservative do you think it is? BMW rates the engine at 560 crank horsepower. 498 would be only a 12% drivetrain loss, which seems low. 443.2 from 560 would be a 20% drivetrain loss, which could be within reason for a conservative dyno. Maybe BMW does measure power output in a partial heat soak situation?

BMW has never measured output in a "partial heat soak" situation and that is not how HP is measured. The S63TU is underrated: http://www.germanboost.com/content.p...mpeltely-stock

[cisi]

Ok amigos having a 335d I had the same issues I have pics of the OEM IC compared to the WAGNER IC, its just a simple plug and play and that my friends has made huge differance in how the car handles the hooter temps as we do here in Puerto Rico

i have the wagner IC too.
After 3 consecutive pulls my 335d already looses power on the dyno.
Its difficult to properly cool this turbo cars on a dyno.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Sorry sticky must of been my browser

Cici true after a few runs back to back you will loose power but it is 100% better than OEM

[5soko]

My 335i use to lose a lot of power on back to back runs on pump gas no meth. I did a lot of datalogs to see what mods had effects on IAT and boost.
Intake, air scoops, FMIC, oil cooler upgrade, but man, on a 95F day coming from the beach on the highway, 3 back to back runs, I was basically getting beat by a stock G37... Then I knew turbo motors need meth.

Looks like the turbo idea holds true on all motors.. Man how I DONT miss those hot days where my 335i became a slug!