DCT iNA0S Kickdown table testing

[musc]

Hey guys. Tried out the new kickdown table from Jake's XDF update. Set the voltage to 4.998 per his instructions and removed my kickdown blocker. Works as expected. I can floor it and hit the kickdown switch but it still doesn't kickdown. This should be fine for the majority of driving. I actually had a kickdown blocker fail during a roll race. I had the DIY adhesive ones and i guess overtime they became flatter and when I slammed the gas down, it kicked down. Still won the race but what a terrible excuse to have to use. My kickdown blocker broke, bruh.

As as expected, you cannot activate launch control with this modification. LC only activates when that kickdown switch is activated. I thought about what if we could have the switch has a hand held button? Or is it possible to remap the function of it to another button, like something on the steering wheel? My other thought is, say we could activate the button independent of pressing the throttle. Would the RPMs still go to 5k or do they only go to 5k because we have the accelerator pedal floored. Just some thoughts.

Has anyone dismantled one of the pedal assemblies to see what this 'switch' actually looks like? It looks like a pretty sealed unit and Real OEM doesn't show any schematics for it, just the single unit.

[mastawyrm]

My guess is that the pedal is no more than a potentiometer to vary the output voltage. It probably has 5v feeding into it and fully depressed (past the kickdown) lowers the resistance to nearly nothing. If this is the case then I imagine a switch to send the full 5v would simply be read as full throttle. What if the kickdown was set to something like 2.5v or less? It would be awful for dd but for a 'flash at the strip' tune, I wonder if that would trigger the LC at a low enough point to just hold the pedal there.

[blew135i]

I am glad we are pressing this topic. It's time to discover a solution. Having the launch fixed and kick down would be major

[musc]

My guess is that the pedal is no more than a potentiometer to vary the output voltage. It probably has 5v feeding into it and fully depressed (past the kickdown) lowers the resistance to nearly nothing. If this is the case then I imagine a switch to send the full 5v would simply be read as full throttle. What if the kickdown was set to something like 2.5v or less? It would be awful for dd but for a 'flash at the strip' tune, I wonder if that would trigger the LC at a low enough point to just hold the pedal there.

I am going to try that. Stock voltage is 4.292. I am going to set it to 2.5v and see if the LC kicks in sooner.

[musc]

It looks like we may need to go even lower. I was able to engage LC without hitting the kickdown switch. The only issue I see is that now it looks like 100% pedal is actually about 50% pressed down, which I guess would make sense since the voltage was cut in half. What I don't know is that by reducing this will still be able to hit full throttle? I know throttle is mapped off pedal % too but does this voltage change affect that or not? Going to try 1.196v next.

[mastawyrm]

Well crap, that makes me think the voltage setting is actually "100% throttle" rather than specifically kickdown. Or the kickdown function overrides the peddle and commands WOT no matter where we try to place it.

[musc]

Ok. I retested at 1.196v. It still seems to take about half physical pedal though it is difficult to tell exactly. One thing for sure is that LC mode kicks in much quicker. Literally tapping pedal down to about 50%. And the RPMs jump to a nice range of 1500-2000 which is ok for street tires. It also seems to linger in LC mode longer which would make it easier to jump the rpms around without LC mode disengaging. Watch the checkered flag. I have to wait for it to go off sometimes even though my foot is off the throttle. As long as the flag is there the clutches are prepared for LC mode. You still have to do the normal foot work. off throttle > off brake > back in throttle.

All in all I think this may be worthwhile practicing with. I do need to do a log and confirm that I am still getting max throttle. In normal driving it seemed fine and in line with my pedal mapping so mapping the pedal mapping is independent of this voltage table. Thoughts??

1st video is testing/explanation. 2nd video is a second attempt at launch. I dont recommending filming and holding steering wheel with one hand and shifting with the other. I need to get some kind of phone mount for my steering wheel so I can film the gauges and drive.

[RSL]

Ok. I retested at 1.196v. It still seems to take about half physical pedal though it is difficult to tell exactly. One thing for sure is that LC mode kicks in much quicker. Literally tapping pedal down to about 50%. And the RPMs jump to a nice range of 1500-2000 which is ok for street tires. It also seems to linger in LC mode longer which would make it easier to jump the rpms around without LC mode disengaging. Watch the checkered flag. I have to wait for it to go off sometimes even though my foot is off the throttle. As long as the flag is there the clutches are prepared for LC mode. You still have to do the normal foot work. off throttle > off brake > back in throttle.

All in all I think this may be worthwhile practicing with. I do need to do a log and confirm that I am still getting max throttle. In normal driving it seemed fine and in line with my pedal mapping so mapping the pedal mapping is independent of this voltage table. Thoughts??

Interesting. I originally thought it might flat out short to ground to trigger a separate logic or something, but I think it was Terry that said it shows >100% pedal to trigger it. I'm starting to think that normally translates to some voltage between 4.292 and 4.998 now and your test might explain why it's buried at full pedal.

If it's showing 99.x accelerator and 81% TPS on the lowered voltage with the pedal only half-way down on LC, I'd say that's a pretty clear indicator that reducing the voltage just re-scaled the 0-5V sensor we call a gas pedal. Then again, I've never logged on LC, not really sure what accel or TPS look like when active. At cruise, are the accelerator or TPS positions absurdly high with the lowered voltage?

It almost seems to me like requested torque tables have more to do with accel position-to-TPS ratio than any of the actual throttle tables, but I'm sure it's only part of the picture. If it's not jerky or always trying to kick down gears with the lowered voltage on normal driving, other tables must be keeping things in check or there are more tables related to the pedal that haven't been found yet

Cool info, thanks for testing it out!

[musc]

Interesting. I originally thought it might flat out short to ground to trigger a separate logic or something, but I think it was Terry that said it shows >100% pedal to trigger it. I'm starting to think that normally translates to some voltage between 4.292 and 4.998 now and your test might explain why it's buried at full pedal.

If it's showing 99.x accelerator and 81% TPS on the lowered voltage with the pedal only half-way down on LC, I'd say that's a pretty clear indicator that reducing the voltage just re-scaled the 0-5V sensor we call a gas pedal. Then again, I've never logged on LC, not really sure what accel or TPS look like when active. At cruise, are the accelerator or TPS positions absurdly high with the lowered voltage?

It almost seems to me like requested torque tables have more to do with accel position-to-TPS ratio than any of the actual throttle tables, but I'm sure it's only part of the picture. If it's not jerky or always trying to kick down gears with the lowered voltage on normal driving, other tables must be keeping things in check or there are more tables related to the pedal that haven't been found yet

Cool info, thanks for testing it out!

It's really hard to gauge just where the pedal is at. Probably need to get some logs of it. I am still able to engage LC mode much quicker with far less pedal than hitting the kickdown so I think that is an improvement. I found it easier to get a low RPM launch. You can still do what I am doing with stock voltage by just hitting the throttle to the floor and hitting the kickdown button and letting off throttle instead of holding it to 5k. Even doing that the RPMs go higher than what I am seeing. Here is another launch I did on street. I tried to tape the camera to the steering wheel for a little better view. Still spins and i had to let off throttle completely to avoid DSC bog but it still felt relatively quick. This is just on a basic road, 38 psi street tires with no burn out. I'd like to see some other DCT people give a shot and see what they think. I guess I could always try 0 voltage as well for fun.

[RSL]

It's really hard to gauge just where the pedal is at. Probably need to get some logs of it. I am still able to engage LC mode much quicker with far less pedal than hitting the kickdown so I think that is an improvement. I found it easier to get a low RPM launch. You can still do what I am doing with stock voltage by just hitting the throttle to the floor and hitting the kickdown button and letting off throttle instead of holding it to 5k. Even doing that the RPMs go higher than what I am seeing. Here is another launch I did on street. I tried to tape the camera to the steering wheel for a little better view. Still spins and i had to let off throttle completely to avoid DSC bog but it still felt relatively quick. This is just on a basic road, 38 psi street tires with no burn out. I'd like to see some other DCT people give a shot and see what they think. I guess I could always try 0 voltage as well for fun.

I can't stand that the LC trigger is the top of the pedal, certainly looks better for that with the voltage lowered. Assuming the pedal operates the same for everything else, anything that lowers LC trigger would be a start. I'll try to log stock pedal LC today.

0V, you might not go anywhere or it might be on LC trying to drive LOL Maybe just cut it in half again and see how the pedal reacts first?

I'd be messing with this already, but had some quirks moving my tune file from IKC0S to INA0S (still in ATR). I worked around one (still not clear why any workaround was even needed), but one issue still lingers and I'll be damned if I know what's causing it. Still trying to sort that migration before moving again to TP just to mess with any ancillary tables...

[RSL]

Sucky log, just did some quick blips in the parking lot at work lol, no launch. TPS doesn't got WOT even with full pedal when I held it at 5k a couple secs. Close, but not 81. Now wondering if TPS is what's actually used to set LC RPM? Quick test would be to set max throttle angle to maybe 50 and see if max LC RPM reduces with it, but I have to work

http://www.datazap.me/u/rsl/stock-lc...data=1-4-23-25

[mastawyrm]

Sucky log, just did some quick blips in the parking lot at work lol, no launch. TPS doesn't got WOT even with full pedal when I held it at 5k a couple secs. Close, but not 81. Now wondering if TPS is what's actually used to set LC RPM? Quick test would be to set max throttle angle to maybe 50 and see if max LC RPM reduces with it, but I have to work

http://www.datazap.me/u/rsl/stock-lc...data=1-4-23-25

Look at your last blip where you held at 5k for almost a full second. Load request and throttle position both shot up with your peddle but came back down in order to stay. I'm thinking it uses the same process as idle targeting or cruise control where it calculates the right load request to keep an rpm steady. I wouldn't be surprised if it's another PID algorithm comparing an rpm setpoint to the actual rpm using requested load as the modified value.

[RSL]

Look at your last blip where you held at 5k for almost a full second. Load request and throttle position both shot up with your peddle but came back down in order to stay. I'm thinking it uses the same process as idle targeting or cruise control where it calculates the right load request to keep an rpm steady. I wouldn't be surprised if it's another PID algorithm comparing an rpm setpoint to the actual rpm using requested load as the modified value.

Did a quick glance walking in and just looked at accel and TPS. Whatever controls LC is going to be way more complicated than it needs to be probably. I guess can play with loads and see if anything impacts it...maybe we can find bits and pieces of the puzzle.

[RSL]

Did another and stayed on it for 3-4 seconds to give things more time to settle in. TPS drops to ~11. Exhaust energy ready when you let off the brake I guess, but WGs are pretty much sitting wide open. I always assumed it built a few PSI or at least held it close to 0psi. Full vacuum was not something that even crossed my mind.

http://www.datazap.me/u/rsl/stock-lc...1-2-4-19-23-25

[mastawyrm]

I assumed the boost floor for pid was 0 not less but I guess I'm wrong there. We're never going to be able to brake boost like a torque converter without disabling lots of safeties and destroying our clutches in the process but it would be nice if we could at least get some spool by closing the wastegates and just venting boost out the DVs or something