What is the biggest shot of nitrous you could possibly run?

So lets say I wanted to take something like an @undercover intake manifold with the direct port nitrous and a ProEFI and shoot the absolute largest shot of nitrous I could. This is in complete disregard for what is good for the turbos or engine, a one time dyno record.

At what point would the back pressure blow the turbines out of the housings(sarcasm), or more likely choke up the system etc.

The point after this of course would be to go big twins or single and build the motor. I'm seriously considering this path for two reasons:

1) Set a likely non-repeatable stock turbo record(unless you like wasting money)
2) Find the limit of the stock block once and for all, unless the huge hit of nitrous induces failure prematurely.
3) I've already set aside enough money for a built motor and singe/big twins. Might even get full head port as well.

Issues: I'm planning on doing this in a DCT, which I'll need to wait for a fix first. In addition, i'll assume the onset of the shot would have to be engaged higher in the RPM band to avoid too much TQ, blowing out the DCT clutchpacks.


How big of a shot could you go?

i never posted 2 octobers ago. but i hit mine with a 200 shot and c16........ it lived. at least on the dyno. stock twins

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Originally Posted by undercover

i never posted 2 octobers ago. but i hit mine with a 200 shot and c16........ it lived. at least on the dyno. stock twins

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what did it put down?

you'd still run into fuelling limits not being able to supply the nos, no?

nitrous on a n54???? do it !!

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Originally Posted by Flinchy

you'd still run into fuelling limits not being able to supply the nos, no?

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Run a wet shot.

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Originally Posted by rader1

Run a wet shot.

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same limitations through the N54 though?

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Originally Posted by Flinchy

same limitations through the N54 though?

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No...that's why he said wet shot...you should be ok on fuel, wet shot will help keep AFR in check, you should run race gas with it. Do you have a meth kit as well? What is current record anyway? Is it Terry's 480whp on e85? I know he did a "glory run" with NOS as well but can't remember if that was on an RB car or not. Either way I'd easily say do a 200 shot if you're just not giving a shit about something break, maybe even a little bigger.

Oh yeah, and what are you going to do for tuning? You could probably talk to Terry to see what timing and boost he ran. I'm guessing 23 psi and maybe ~18* of timing with a 100+ octane in the tank and a 200 shot of NOS should yield something crazy....

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Originally Posted by mjmarovi

No...that's why he said wet shot...you should be ok on fuel, wet shot will help keep AFR in check, you should run race gas with it. Do you have a meth kit as well? What is current record anyway? Is it Terry's 480whp on e85? I know he did a "glory run" with NOS as well but can't remember if that was on an RB car or not. Either way I'd easily say do a 200 shot if you're just not giving a shit about something break, maybe even a little bigger.

Oh yeah, and what are you going to do for tuning? You could probably talk to Terry to see what timing and boost he ran. I'm guessing 23 psi and maybe ~18* of timing with a 100+ octane in the tank and a 200 shot of NOS should yield something crazy....

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ohhh my mistake, wet shot adds extra fuel supplementary?

that'd be pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by Flinchy

ohhh my mistake, wet shot adds extra fuel supplementary?

that'd be pretty cool.

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Absolutely, I don't think you're gonna push past 600whp anyway, so I don't see there being issues with fueling. I think with a lpfp upgrade and meth without a strong e85 mixture should be good for ~700-750 I think.

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Originally Posted by klipseracer

2) Find the limit of the stock block once and for all, unless the huge hit of nitrous induces failure prematurely.

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Although I'm a big fan of the idea, I think blowing up the block will be difficult with stock turbos, unless shooting 400-500 hp of NOS.

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Originally Posted by mjmarovi

No...that's why he said wet shot...you should be ok on fuel, wet shot will help keep AFR in check, you should run race gas with it. Do you have a meth kit as well? What is current record anyway? Is it Terry's 480whp on e85? I know he did a "glory run" with NOS as well but can't remember if that was on an RB car or not. Either way I'd easily say do a 200 shot if you're just not giving a shit about something break, maybe even a little bigger.

Oh yeah, and what are you going to do for tuning? You could probably talk to Terry to see what timing and boost he ran. I'm guessing 23 psi and maybe ~18* of timing with a 100+ octane in the tank and a 200 shot of NOS should yield something crazy....

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When running nos both terry and hotrod were running cps to lower timing to around 9* peak. Not sure what the reasoning is, never run nos myself.

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Originally Posted by mjmarovi

Absolutely, I don't think you're gonna push past 600whp anyway, so I don't see there being issues with fueling. I think with a lpfp upgrade and meth without a strong e85 mixture should be good for ~700-750 I think.

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past 600 on stock frames? yeah absolutely, that'd be crazy lol

has anyone seen how a single can do without meth on the stock HPFP + upgraded LPFP?

Just curious, why would running nitrous have any effect on the turbos? The extra oxygen comes from the nitrous so wouldn't the turbos be running at the same rpm with or without nitrous?

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Originally Posted by Jewber

Just curious, why would running nitrous have any effect on the turbos? The extra oxygen comes from the nitrous so wouldn't the turbos be running at the same rpm with or without nitrous?

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You are correct, I don't think the NOS necessarily would do anything, but in this case he's just wanting to go all out so 20+psi will kill them

If you're goal is to just set a record and kill the engine at the same time there is literally almost no limit to what shot you could run but if you start out too aggressively you may grenade the engine before you even make it far enough into a pull to get any good numbers. On the average dynojet you're going to max out around 440hwp on a "kill" mode race gas/E85 tune and then start at a 50hp shot and then step up jet sizes after each pull until you find out where it pops.

I think you're going to start to hit breathing/thermal walls over 500whp. I could see mid/upper 500's with some timing pull, E85, and lots of meth. The stock frames really plug things up.

^ what he said..stock frame exhaust side simply won't let it flow a lot..as for testing limits, you'd need a proper flowing exhaust side, i.e. big turbo(s)

http://www.60-130.com/images/importe...p6300107-1.jpg

this guy made 453wrhp on a 50 shot with just a custom exhaust, downpipes on 91oct.
http://www.fsrmotorsports.com/builds...i-turbo-part-1

Honestly I just don't think this whole thing is a good idea. It's a poor test for what the motor can handle, as it will only tell us what abuse it can take on stock frames, and that's only your motor, it's not going to be like throwing on big turbos and then throwing Nos at it. The only thing this will do is give you a glory run on the dyno for possibly taking the stock turbo whp record, which no one is honestly going to care about as it will only be a glory run and nothing else. Looking out for you I'd say just forget about it, it will be a waste of money and who knows what else you'll damage costing you more to rebuild.

I know there was someone a few years back that hit north of 500 on the stock fans with nitrous, I don't remember the exact number. What could be interesting as well would be spraying down low and finding out the torque rods let go at heh. Just be careful not to damage the block if you're rebuilding that one :-)

What you manage with one setup you may not get with the others.

The best way is obviously direct port and some high octane fuel to go with it. You'll definitely have the most even distribution and be able to do more than a dry shot.

Weren't people having concerns about puddling with a wet shot?

Regardless, direct port and let it rip.

at this point I would leave the healthy motor alone. not worth blowing it up for some unrealistic stock turbo record IMO. But do what you want..

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Originally Posted by rdeterman

at this point I would leave the healthy motor alone. not worth blowing it up for some unrealistic stock turbo record IMO. But do what you want..

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On the bright side replacements motors are cheap and plentiful for this car.

As long as your exhaust post-turbo can support the HP, BP won't change. The extra air mass just bypasses through the WGs. Terry has prob seen more n2o logs then most... I'd be curious to see the WGDC difference.

Different setups will have different HP limits, so difficult to relate them... HP vs cyl pressures won't be the same. Peak torque should be fairly relatable though.

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Originally Posted by Sticky

On the bright side replacements motors are cheap and plentiful for this car.

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cheap compared to?

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Originally Posted by Torgus

cheap compared to?

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An s65 for example.

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Originally Posted by Njz

An s65 for example.

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Honda B16 is cheaper doe!

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Originally Posted by Njz

An s65 for example.

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You mean a larger engine from a car that costs almost 2x as much and there were fewer built? Isn't that just taken for granted?

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Originally Posted by klipseracer

Find the limit of the stock block once and for all, unless the huge hit of nitrous induces failure prematurely.

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This might be the worst way to test to test the strength because you're going to have no idea to know exactly at what point did something start bending (concern for long term reliability) vs. break (absolute point of no return).

To each's own, but like everyone said thethere's no way you're going to surpass the numbers from the VTT S3 prototype or FFTEC ST on stock turbos, but it'll be interesting to see how the motor handles the low-end TQ bomb.

I doubt anyone will attempt to spray down low. Your spray should begin roughly around peak torque and hold just up to shift point. This means no additional down low power which will make things break and the car will continue to pull to shift point. Just the way that mine is setup.

I've got a fund that I could do a variety of things with. Might do a small bit of renovating of my patio which I've been really needing to do or maybe I'll do this. I was thinking like stepping up to something like a 500 shot over the course several pulls, slowly getting bigger. Perhaps this test would be best saved once I have the bigger turbo(s) on. Then rebuild.

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Originally Posted by Torgus

cheap compared to?

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Anything with an M on it.

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Originally Posted by Torgus

You mean a larger engine from a car that costs almost 2x as much and there were fewer built? Isn't that just taken for granted?

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That's the whole point namely in the BMW realm. If it was understood why did you ask?

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Originally Posted by klipseracer

I've got a fund that I could do a variety of things with. Might do a small bit of renovating of my patio which I've been really needing to do or maybe I'll do this. I was thinking like stepping up to something like a 500 shot over the course several pulls, slowly getting bigger. Perhaps this test would be best saved once I have the bigger turbo(s) on. Then rebuild.

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I like patios. If I were you, big turbo it up, add nitrous, but rather than figure out limits, hit your goal +50ish whp and go have fun with it!

For me, the fun is in the build. I realized, that I spend very little time driving my cars. I tend to shop, buy, build, sell(or in my latest case, wreck). But as people mentioned, the fueling shouldn't be an issue since if I ran a ProEFI say, the 112 that is coming out with the proper Undercover intake, I should be able to run as big of a shot as I want, no? If I set the turbos to 18psi then then wastegates should be able to expell the surge in exhaust from the nitrous, right?

Has anyone even ran a wet shot besides Undercover? I mean, besides being a mostly bad idea, assuming drive train is in order and an EMS, what stops someone from running a 500, direct port wet shot?

500 shot? I dont even.... I seriously doubt any piece of the puzzle would take a hit that hard via nitrous. If your motor held together, your driveline would be shot. Nitrous is a surge of instant power not a smoothly ramped up increase in power. Hope you are trolling for lulz and not seriously considering trying to break shit for the sake of breaking shit.

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Originally Posted by V8Bait

I like patios. If I were you, big turbo it up, add nitrous, but rather than figure out limits, hit your goal +50ish whp and go have fun with it!

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I say do the patio first :)

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Originally Posted by Njz

500 shot? I dont even.... I seriously doubt any piece of the puzzle would take a hit that hard via nitrous. If your motor held together, your driveline would be shot. Nitrous is a surge of instant power not a smoothly ramped up increase in power. Hope you are trolling for lulz and not seriously considering trying to break $#@! for the sake of breaking $#@!.

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Actually you do run a ramped up Nitrous shot using the new controllers like on the NX set ups..... we are going to do a 50-150 hp ramped up dual stage shot on my 540i soon..... only mods will be water/meth and tune..... really don't care if I blow the thing cause replacements are cheap !

A local N20 guy reckons anything over 1/2 the engine max power at peak rev equivalent is a sure thing for damage on an un-modded set up...... (that is on a NA engine)... the gains on some of the turbo N20 systems seem to add a synergistic affect... eg a 50 shot on someone's N54 here added roughly 80 whp (a thread was done a while back)